Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#41

Post by minimaxir » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 5:39 PM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #33

minimaxir wrote: post #6

This is mostly another fix of bad design that was added in Reddit's early years, but people have started to notice the aggressive vote fuzzing as it was calibrated for a much smaller userbase. At the least, this will break statistical analysis of Reddit data for awhile since the public datasets will not have their scores updated, which I in particular am not happy about. :p

Complaints like this are the reason companies are reluctant to release public datasets. They don't have any obligation to release data, but they do. It's a gift. If they have to consider "how will this change affect the consumers of our public data releases?" every time they make a change, they're going to stop releasing public datasets.

For clarity, the Reddit datasets are not released by Reddit itself, but scraped through the API. (More context/examples of what I do with the data: http://minimaxir.com/2015/10/reddit-bigquery/ )

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#42

Post by binthere » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

rm999 wrote: post #30

It's pretty clear to me that Reddit has always lacked a solid experienced science-driven data person. Someone who can pinpoint an issue, formulate the issue into a product-driven concrete problem, come up with hypotheses on how to fix the problem, then use their vast wealth of data and users to test and/or implement them. It's not just the ad hoc unintuitive "solution" they came up with to mask votes (which most peop…

Could you elaborate on "their lack of personalized content discovery"?

I'm usually on the fence of bringing personalized content on platforms where you usually want to remain anonymous.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#43

Post by notatoad » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

gohrt wrote: post #11

Silly that the announcements give so much attention to scores going up (due to a change in scale) and not to the content of the change. It would be trivial to keep the scale magnitude the same by multiplying by a factor ("old average frontpage post" / "new average frontpage post") or applying a logarithmic transform. Makes me think that they are intentionally kicking up dust around the scale change, to draw attention…

Neither of those links seem to indicate any changes other than the big one. What exactly are they trying to bury?

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#44

Post by SEJeff » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC

rm999 wrote: post #30

It's pretty clear to me that Reddit has always lacked a solid experienced science-driven data person. Someone who can pinpoint an issue, formulate the issue into a product-driven concrete problem, come up with hypotheses on how to fix the problem, then use their vast wealth of data and users to test and/or implement them. It's not just the ad hoc unintuitive "solution" they came up with to mask votes (which most peop…

As a data driven scientist, if you were the king of Reddit, what would you do differently and why would it be better? Not playing devil's advocate, but just curious.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#45

Post by minimaxir » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC

rm999 wrote: post #30

It's pretty clear to me that Reddit has always lacked a solid experienced science-driven data person. Someone who can pinpoint an issue, formulate the issue into a product-driven concrete problem, come up with hypotheses on how to fix the problem, then use their vast wealth of data and users to test and/or implement them. It's not just the ad hoc unintuitive "solution" they came up with to mask votes (which most peop…

> “At one point I just ask him, ‘how’s the data science team at Reddit?’ And [Ohanian] said, ‘what data science team?’” Weiner recounts to me.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/25/reddit-cto-marty-weiner-on...

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#46

Post by justinlaster » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 5:42 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #40

justinlaster wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to lay to rest this ridiculous notion that reddit is actively censoring anyone. A few subs have hosted outright illegal material, harassed users on and offline, and ruined the general ecosystem in the rest of reddit. The admins have reacted accordingly... sometimes . The bar to get out right banned from reddit is absurdly (and needlessly, in my opinion) high. However, these specific changes have been planned…

> We need to lay to rest this ridiculous notion that reddit is actively censoring anyone. They have code targeting specific subreddits to actively prevent them from being on the front page. While not totally censoring those people, they are putting their fingers on the scale which many see as a form of censorship.

>They have code targeting specific subreddits to actively prevent them from being on the front page.

Source? The only thing they've done is prevent certain mod tools from being used a slingshot to the front page for specific subreddits. And this wasn't done out of hatred, it was done after consistent and continual abuse of those mod tools to antagonize the rest of the community.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#47

Post by covercash » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

rokosbasilisk wrote: post #27

jamespo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or do what they want as it's their website

bad argument. we dont let bakers discrimate against gay people. being a private business, doesnt mean you can do whatever you want. Edit: I agree with the posters below me. My point is a private business doesnt mean I can do whatever I want. There are still social rules and laws that need to be considered.

Speaking of bad arguments... supporting Trump is a choice, you aren't born that way.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#48

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 5:44 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #40

justinlaster wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to lay to rest this ridiculous notion that reddit is actively censoring anyone. A few subs have hosted outright illegal material, harassed users on and offline, and ruined the general ecosystem in the rest of reddit. The admins have reacted accordingly... sometimes . The bar to get out right banned from reddit is absurdly (and needlessly, in my opinion) high. However, these specific changes have been planned…

> We need to lay to rest this ridiculous notion that reddit is actively censoring anyone. They have code targeting specific subreddits to actively prevent them from being on the front page. While not totally censoring those people, they are putting their fingers on the scale which many see as a form of censorship.

[deleted]

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#49

Post by clamprecht » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 5:44 PM UTC

rm999 wrote: post #30

It's pretty clear to me that Reddit has always lacked a solid experienced science-driven data person. Someone who can pinpoint an issue, formulate the issue into a product-driven concrete problem, come up with hypotheses on how to fix the problem, then use their vast wealth of data and users to test and/or implement them. It's not just the ad hoc unintuitive "solution" they came up with to mask votes (which most peop…

Redditor of 11 years here. I don't want another filter bubble that only shows me what it thinks I want to read (like Facebook). I want to see what other people are seeing, and not just like-minded people either. For that I can find subreddits and subscribe to them.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#50

Post by rm999 » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 5:44 PM UTC

binthere wrote: post #42

rm999 wrote: post #30

It's pretty clear to me that Reddit has always lacked a solid experienced science-driven data person. Someone who can pinpoint an issue, formulate the issue into a product-driven concrete problem, come up with hypotheses on how to fix the problem, then use their vast wealth of data and users to test and/or implement them. It's not just the ad hoc unintuitive "solution" they came up with to mask votes (which most peop…

Could you elaborate on "their lack of personalized content discovery"? I'm usually on the fence of bringing personalized content on platforms where you usually want to remain anonymous.

It could be as simple as "Hey, we noticed you spend a lot of time on r/gaming and r/frugal - might we suggest r/gameDeals?". Or perhaps even just filling some of the front page with threads from subreddits that may interest the user.

I think there'd be a lot of interesting discovery available to reasonably active users of reddit. (I've spent a significant % of my career on personalized recommendations, and in my opinion reddit's product is close to ideal in many regards).