Looks almost exactly like the Sparkup plugin for vim + TextMate, which also ended up on HN not too long ago: http://jetpackweb.com/blog/2010/03/04/write-html-faster-with...
If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life
21–30 of 44 posts
Re: If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life
#22The thing I don't like about all these ways to "improve" HTML/CSS is that they all seem to assume the rest of the webapp ecosystem doesn't exist. Take SASS's variables and arithmetic, for instance. I agree that CSS desperately needs some way to abstract out common values. But any decent webapp will already be using some sort of template system, and the template system will have some sort of variable. Why not use it a…
The upside of having a system like SASS is that it can be a lot smarter about the underlying system it's generating content for, which you don't get if you use a general-purpose template system. Selector nesting in SASS is a good example of this. It makes both the styling and page structure a lot easier to understand, which is a bigger win in my book than the typing it saves.
I see a system like Zen Coding not for tackling the same tasks as a template system, where the bulk of your work effort might be spent. It's for the irritating little bits around the edges where, instead of taking 5 minutes per page bashing out boilerplate, it now takes 30 seconds. Not a huge win, but a win nonetheless.
Re: If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life
#23There's a reason why C compilers aren't implemented as editor macros that convert what you type into assembly, as you type it. It's because a high-level programmer never wants to work at that low level; he should never see the lower level. Ideally, he shouldn't even know that the lower level exists. (When was the last time you debugged your CPU microcode?) If something is so cumbersome that it needs to be abstracted…
The problem is that you still have to communicate with others, and others already know html/css/whatever rather than the new whiz-bang tech.
Re: If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life
#24There's a reason why C compilers aren't implemented as editor macros that convert what you type into assembly, as you type it. It's because a high-level programmer never wants to work at that low level; he should never see the lower level. Ideally, he shouldn't even know that the lower level exists. (When was the last time you debugged your CPU microcode?) If something is so cumbersome that it needs to be abstracted…
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Re: If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life
#25There's a reason why C compilers aren't implemented as editor macros that convert what you type into assembly, as you type it. It's because a high-level programmer never wants to work at that low level; he should never see the lower level. Ideally, he shouldn't even know that the lower level exists. (When was the last time you debugged your CPU microcode?) If something is so cumbersome that it needs to be abstracted…
The problem is that you still have to communicate with others, and others already know html/css/whatever rather than the new whiz-bang tech.
If you want to optimize for other people's productivity, that's fine. But that's not what's best for you.
Also, there is a simple solution to this problem -- a program that converts $foo into HTML and a program that converts HTML into $foo. pandoc is an example.
Re: If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life
#26That's a seriously exaggerated title.
plus I mean, is HTML syntax really the pain point here, vs you know figuring out a CSS layout?
Re: If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life
#27When i want to code HTML i use HTML.vim (for vim of course). Of course, you have to memorize some keystrokes such as ";bo" for bold. or ;fo for font or ";fc" for font color etc, but these are really easy. I'd be interested in knowing if this is available for some OS X editor (pref a free one) and whether they have vim support. (Cant recall if TextWrangler is free)
>Of course, you have to memorize some keystrokes such as ";bo" for bold. or ;fo for font or ";fc" for font color etc, but these are really easy.
I hope those shortcuts are writing CSS?!
Re: If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life
#28There's a reason why C compilers aren't implemented as editor macros that convert what you type into assembly, as you type it. It's because a high-level programmer never wants to work at that low level; he should never see the lower level. Ideally, he shouldn't even know that the lower level exists. (When was the last time you debugged your CPU microcode?) If something is so cumbersome that it needs to be abstracted…
I'm not sure I understand your point: Zen Coding just makes it easier to write HTML (like autocompletion in an IDE) instead of translating it into some other language (like your Assembly example).
Re: If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that you still have to communicate with others, and others already know html/css/whatever rather than the new whiz-bang tech.
If you want to optimize for other people's productivity, that's fine. But that's not what's best for you . Also, there is a simple solution to this problem -- a program that converts $foo into HTML and a program that converts HTML into $foo. pandoc is an example.
Which me? Me the business owner that hires both web designers and programmers? Me the team leader that needs to manage a heterogeneous group of people, each with a different skill-set? Me the one-man-shop (and programmer) who outsources the design work?
If I have both web designers and programmers on my team having them communicate can most certainly be my problem (or at the very least a problem I am gravely effected by).
Re: If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life
#30Is writing TONS of HTML really a problem that needs solving? Are people writing Bible-Tome sized pieces of markup? This feels like a solution in need of a problem.