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Ask HN: Are you with me? Leaving Facebook.

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Re: Ask HN: Are you with me? Leaving Facebook.

#31

Post by jkincaid »

steveklabnik wrote: post #2

Nope. I'm not. Yes, privacy is important. However, the only information that I've ever put on Facebook is information that I'd want everyone else to know. That's why I have a Facebook; to give people who don't know me an idea of who I am and what I'm like, and get a little bit of personal branding out there. For instance, there's at least one little portion of my life that I don't want to be broadcast out to everyone…

"I don't feel that Facebook told anyone that their data would be private. Maybe I'm just naïve, or a little bit of an exhibitionist."

This was actually how Facebook got popular in the first place. The whole point was that it was more private than the other social networks out there. As the site grew, one of its big selling points was its privacy control panel, which gave you granular control over how your content was shared.

Perhaps the perception has changed in the last year or two, but I think a lot of people signed up under the impression that Facebook is a safe/private site.

Re: Ask HN: Are you with me? Leaving Facebook.

#32

Post by philcrissman »

steveklabnik wrote: post #19
philcrissman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reason isn't entirely the privacy concern, though, I just think their UX and some of their design/application decisions are _horrible_. It's an excruciating site to use if you want to do anything other than the two or three things they _want_ you to do. * Sharing information: Easy! * Removing information: Okay, not _too_ hard, but not as easy as sharing it! * Adding applications/pages: Easy! * Removing application…

It's because their incentives aren't aligned with yours. Of course they want to make it easy to share, and hard to wall yourself off. I'm not sure how to properly align those incentives, but you can't really blame them.

That's true.

But I'm not necessarily talking about walling myself off; it should be _just as simple_ to remove an application as to add it.

Anyways, you're right, but still; if they're going to continue pursuing their own incentives and not their users, I predict they'll (eventually) lose their users.

Re: Ask HN: Are you with me? Leaving Facebook.

#33

Post by Legion »

ivenkys wrote: post #30

I never went in - i still don't understand the point of FB or others of their ilk. If i really want to keep in touch with far-flung family, friends - i pick up the phone or drop an email. If they are important to me i will make the effort. I also don't find the need to advertise on a daily/hourly basis what i am doing or tell people about the cool car/bike/tv/ipod etc. i bought. May be its just not for people like me…

Facebook is highly efficient for communicating with a large number of "fringe" acquaintances.

Things you suggest - picking up the phone, dropping an email - require 1-on-1 contact. I am limited in the amount of time I can devote to 1-on-1 contact.

But I can post on Facebook and people that know me but aren't necessarily people I want to devote a lot of 1-on-1 time to - more distant relatives, old friends, etc. - can see what I want to share. And I can skim my feed and see what they want to share.

The level of time and contact is proportional to the relationship. They're not my inner circle, they're outer circle. Facebook is the single best improvement to my "outer circle" relationships ever invented. For low effort, I get to have some contact instead of no contact.

For some people, Facebook is all about the time wasting activities, but that's not the core of the experience unless you make it so.

Re: Ask HN: Are you with me? Leaving Facebook.

#34

Post by kennu »

If you share something with your 300+ friends on Facebook, I think it's obvious it's no longer private. I have always considered Facebook a tool for _finding_ interesting stuff intead of _hiding_ it.

A more open, non-evil alternative would be cool, of course. But good luck rebuilding the whole social graph there. Almost anybody who has tried that has failed.

(I view this as somebody who follows the Facebook News Feed all the time, posts several times a day, and often participates in long discussion threads about news, politics etc. with my friends.)

Re: Ask HN: Are you with me? Leaving Facebook.

#35

Post by steveklabnik »

jkincaid wrote: post #31
steveklabnik wrote: post #2

Nope. I'm not. Yes, privacy is important. However, the only information that I've ever put on Facebook is information that I'd want everyone else to know. That's why I have a Facebook; to give people who don't know me an idea of who I am and what I'm like, and get a little bit of personal branding out there. For instance, there's at least one little portion of my life that I don't want to be broadcast out to everyone…

"I don't feel that Facebook told anyone that their data would be private. Maybe I'm just naïve, or a little bit of an exhibitionist." This was actually how Facebook got popular in the first place. The whole point was that it was more private than the other social networks out there. As the site grew, one of its big selling points was its privacy control panel, which gave you granular control over how your content was…

I think you're conflating privacy with exclusivity. Facebook was originally only for those in college because it was an electronic version of a book that was put out by Zuck's college.

Secondly, I don't think that Facebook's privacy controls were ever a big selling point. The fact that it was for cool kids combined with the fact that all of your friends were on it was a huge selling point. Yes, people use the privacy controls, but never the fine grained stuff, it's all "don't show info to people that aren't my friends."

Or maybe my perception was skewed. Facebook came to my school in September of my freshman year of college, so I'm literally in the exact cohort that grew up with it.

Re: Ask HN: Are you with me? Leaving Facebook.

#36

Post by glhaynes »

One thing to keep in mind: there are no signs I know of yet that the 'unwashed masses' are going to quit using Facebook: they love it and don't seem to care about the privacy thing overall. So by leaving, you're missing out on a significant perspective of what users (read: customers) experience everyday. It's like refusing to use Windows during the 90s. Not saying you shouldn't, but just that it's a cost to keep in mind.

Also: how confident are you that Facebook won't still be HUGE 10 years from now? Many smart people think FB will only expand in its importance on the web. Again, not saying it will be or that people shouldn't quit if it offends their sense of propriety, but I'd hate to reopen my account 5 years from now after publicly committing a principled FB suicide.

Re: Ask HN: Are you with me? Leaving Facebook.

#37

Post by gcr »

davi wrote: post #28
pg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What features should it have? (Or not have?)

1: I want ACLs meet Web. I want to publish personal stuff to close friends & family, professional stuff to colleagues, and random miscellany to the world, all via the same tool. I want to be able to customize the layout of my content depending on the audience. 2: I want this without my friends and family having to learn about OpenID or having to sign up for a new account somewhere. (I don't know how to do this, I am…

You are describing the Internet. Self-run web sites, blogs, and instant messaging systems:

1. allow you to fine-tune who sees what, 2. do not require extra accounts (save comment systems, etc.), 3. are not tied to any one provider or company and thus will last for a long time.

Re: Ask HN: Are you with me? Leaving Facebook.

#38

Post by jkincaid »

steveklabnik wrote: post #35
jkincaid wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't feel that Facebook told anyone that their data would be private. Maybe I'm just naïve, or a little bit of an exhibitionist." This was actually how Facebook got popular in the first place. The whole point was that it was more private than the other social networks out there. As the site grew, one of its big selling points was its privacy control panel, which gave you granular control over how your content was…

I think you're conflating privacy with exclusivity. Facebook was originally only for those in college because it was an electronic version of a book that was put out by Zuck's college. Secondly, I don't think that Facebook's privacy controls were ever a big selling point. The fact that it was for cool kids combined with the fact that all of your friends were on it was a huge selling point. Yes, people use the privacy…

"Yes, people use the privacy controls, but never the fine grained stuff, it's all "don't show info to people that aren't my friends."

Exactly. People didn't care much about the granular stuff, just that only their friends could see what they were posting. With the changes FB has made to its settings (namely, the 'Everyone' setting that is now the default), that's no longer true.

For what it's worth, I was in the exact same group as you — Facebook came out while I was in college and I joined the day it came to my school. Exclusivity definitely played a part in helping it catch on, but I think Facebook's reputation as a "safe" site is what helped it make the jump from high school/college kids to everyone else.

Re: Ask HN: Are you with me? Leaving Facebook.

#39

Post by vyrotek »

maxwin wrote: post #20

We need a decentralized social graph. I should host and own my data not facebook or any other organization. Maybe browsers should innovate and solve this problem.

Many people have thought this too. A sort of p2p social network? You solve a handful of problems but create many new ones to overcome. For example, using Facebook on multiple computers is simple right now. Now lets consider a p2p model. How do you handle uploading photos from a computer that isn't your main/home one? You'll need to basically synchronize content between the computer involved and your main one. There's also the case where I want to share a photo and not store it locally at all. What happens when some of the computers involved in your friend network are turned off and those friends want to view photos? I'm not sure you can make it completely P2P. You might need a central 'cache' of new content which then just gets pushed down to your friends once they sign in. And since everyone is disconnected that sounds like everyone needs to have a copy of their friend's data. I'm not interested in storing their photos on my PC. Just some random thoughts that came to mind.
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