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Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

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Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#861

Post by nneonneo »

idlewords wrote: post #380

This is a terrible decision. The tech industry has built powerful tools of social control, and runs vast databases of private data on pretty much everyone in the country. We have a golden period of forty-some days before a new administration comes to power that has shown every intent of using that information to deport people and create a national Muslim registry. We need to be talking about the political implication…

I don't mean to offend, but I think that this is not a rational comment. I think it illustrates my point that rational discourse can rapidly become irrational when politics get involved. Again, I stress that this is why I am strongly in favor of a moratorium on politics on HN.

You express a fear that Trump is going to somehow strongarm, subpoena, or otherwise force tech companies to roll over and give over private data on every Muslim in the US. Notwithstanding the massive technical challenge involved there, I'm fairly certain such a request would be met with significant opposition at some stage - from judicial challenges, to company refusal, to public backlash. It simply is not a situation that can reasonably happen (especially quietly), no matter how loudly Trump might yell about it.

Additionally, you must keep in mind that a sizeable fraction of the population had very similar fears (re: gun control, healthcare, socialism, etc.) when Obama was elected in 2008. These folks were scared of what Obama would do based on what he promised to do. In the end, checks and balances won out, and Obama didn't end up doing many of the things he promised to do. (He's still a great president, though - in my opinion of course).

It's normal to be scared in these times, but it's not a good idea to lose your head. Trump can say a lot of terrible, terrible things - people are literally entitled to say whatever they want in this country - but if you rationally analyze the feasibility of his plans you'll realize that most of them aren't actually doable. And, you may also realize that some of his plans are even good for the country - for example, infrastructure spending is a proven way to improve the economy, and it is something that the US quite desperately needs (see: John Oliver).

Now, I shouldn't need to say this on a forum like this, but I am by no means a fan of Trump. I think that his rhetoric is dangerous, but he _is_ going to be president, and that means working with him to establish the best policies and compromises going forward, rather than stubbornly refusing outright to work with him.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#862

Post by jrcii »

nkurz wrote: post #831
jrcii wrote: post #768

Oriental is not an offensive term according to the unanimous opinion of over a dozen Asian friends I've broached the subject with, but that opinion isn't aligned with San Fransisco leftist political beliefs so I was banned from HN. Liberals are open to everyone as long as you think exactly like they do, otherwise fascist-style political censorship and hate is the rule.

No, you were banned for being rude and obnoxious. Had you stopped at "Oriental is not an offensive word", individuals may have downvoted you to express their disagreement, but I doubt you would have been banned. Personally, I think 'Oriental' sounds a bit dated, but not of itself offensive. Instead, you were banned because you followed it with "anyone who thinks it is should grow a pair and get a life. The hypersensi…

That's my political opinion. I'm not on board with this liberal shit that's crammed down my throat on this website and why should I have to be? Liberals pretend to be tolerant, they're the most INtolerant group of people. Now they're getting together to ban conservative speech with hashes.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#863

Post by dang »

aswanson wrote: post #753
tarikjn wrote: post #62

I find this experiment a bit strange/disturbing, avoiding political subjects is a way of putting the head in the sand. HN is a community of hackers and entrepreneurs and politics affects these subjects one way or another wether we want to avoid it or not, and are an important component of entrepreneurial and technical subjects. It might be fine if HN was a scientific community, but it is not the case, and even then p…

There as about 18 billion other places on the internet for useless political arguments. HN was much more informative and intellectually stimulating when the immune system response to even hints of political bickering was brutal and swift.

When was that, and can you link to examples? I don't remember it that way.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#865

Post by dang »

wpietri wrote: post #853
dang wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it's not possible to define "politics" precisely, and it would be a mistake to try. But there's nothing new in that; the HN guidelines have always mentioned politics without defining the term, and we get by. We can clarify, though. The main concern here is pure politics: the conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, gender, class, and religion that get people hot and turn into flamewars on the internet.…

> pure politics: the conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, gender, class, and religion I'm very sad to see this, dang. Complaining about identity politics is a form of identity politics. Because we white people are the default, banning discussion of non-whiteness reinforces whiteness. Banning discussion of gender similarly favors men, especially in tech. You and I might experience this experiment as a detox…

That comment was a mistake on my part. The point I was trying to make was a lesser one, and the misunderstanding it gave rise to was much greater, so I should have thought of a completely different angle or just not bothered. Usually I can spot that sort of bug in advance, but a discussion this prolonged and intense fries the brain.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#866

Post by SerLava »

ohpuhleeeze wrote: post #731
rybosome wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not hyperbole. http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/20/donal... > Donald J. Trump, who earlier in the week said he was open to requiring Muslims in the United States to register in a database, said on Thursday night that he “would certainly implement that — absolutely.” Mr. Trump was asked about the issue by an NBC News reporter and pressed on whether all Muslims in the country would be forced…

That quote is from 2015. If everyone held people to what they said a year ago despite them softening on the issue or even changing their mind completely... well then why is Obama so highly regarded by the left?

I was hesitant to support dang's (OP's) idea but this is pushing me towards it.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#867

Post by benevol »

idlewords wrote: post #380

This is a terrible decision. The tech industry has built powerful tools of social control, and runs vast databases of private data on pretty much everyone in the country. We have a golden period of forty-some days before a new administration comes to power that has shown every intent of using that information to deport people and create a national Muslim registry. We need to be talking about the political implication…

Since Snowden's intervention we know that technology is being used to aggressively lay the foundation of a (future? potential?) totalitarian regime.

How can technology be separated from the subject of power when the future of democracy in the most powerful nation in the World is at stake?

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#868

Post by erelde »

I first came to HN because I wanted someplace to escape the political news cycle. Not because I because I wanted to avoid politics altogether.

This seems like the right move for now. But we should be able to discuss political matters when they intersect with the topic at hand.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#869

Post by dang »

trowawee wrote: post #110
dang wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it's not possible to define "politics" precisely, and it would be a mistake to try. But there's nothing new in that; the HN guidelines have always mentioned politics without defining the term, and we get by. We can clarify, though. The main concern here is pure politics: the conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, gender, class, and religion that get people hot and turn into flamewars on the internet.…

> But there's nothing new in that; the HN guidelines have always mentioned politics without defining the term, and we get by. I mean, you clearly don't think that we have "gotten by"; generally a moratorium on a topic isn't required unless something is going wrong.

HN isn't immune from macro trends.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#870

Post by dang »

mjg59 wrote: post #288
dang wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it's not possible to define "politics" precisely, and it would be a mistake to try. But there's nothing new in that; the HN guidelines have always mentioned politics without defining the term, and we get by. We can clarify, though. The main concern here is pure politics: the conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, gender, class, and religion that get people hot and turn into flamewars on the internet.…

Hi dang, Quick question for clarification - would http://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-companies-delay-diversity-r... fall into the kind of race and gender issues that you'd block this week?

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. That's a tough one. On the one hand it's a substantive news story on a subject of core interest to HN. On the other hand it's bound to result in a highly politicized discussion, if not a poster child for the kind of flamewar we're trying to avoid. So I don't have a good answer for you.

Since we asked people to err on the side of flagging for just this week, I don't think we can ask them not to flag that one. It would be fine to post it next week though.

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