Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#691

Post by abathur » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 11:35 PM UTC

It's your prerogative to enforce HN's own rules about political posts, but I think identifying "politics" as a "topic" is a misguided (political) gesture.

It's one thing to say pogo sticks are off-topic in a unicycling forum, and quite another to say basic human drives (thought, sex, hunger, curiosity, creation, expression, socializing, prediction, story-telling, bonding, power, respect, exploration...) that pervade everything we do are "off-topic".

On the road to pathologizing and demonizing people who don't agree with us, this kind of compartmentalization is itself a mechanism we use to flatten and stereotype away the human needs, desires, and drives that animate others.

You may benefit HN (and society) more by acknowledging these entanglements and focusing instead on how to model, shape, and cultivate responsible civic discourse.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#692

Post by OJFord » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 11:35 PM UTC

tarikjn wrote: post #62

I find this experiment a bit strange/disturbing, avoiding political subjects is a way of putting the head in the sand. HN is a community of hackers and entrepreneurs and politics affects these subjects one way or another wether we want to avoid it or not, and are an important component of entrepreneurial and technical subjects. It might be fine if HN was a scientific community, but it is not the case, and even then p…

I too find this to be an argumentum ad absurdum.

    > The values of Hacker News are intellectual curiosity
    > and thoughtful conversation.

    > For one week, political stories are off-topic.

That said, I can support:

    > Those things are lost when political emotions seize
    > control.

This ban should be on political emotions seizing control; not on intellectual conversation surrounding political stories.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#693

Post by fjarlq » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 11:37 PM UTC

c0nducktr wrote: post #652

samstave wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, this certainly trumps anything that Reddit is trying to do with out-right bans. They were like "Oh! BAM" A ban on /r/this and that. This election cycle felt like I was taking a lot of mesclin, ton of it too... Anyway, I like the non-political week. Anyway... that's just my two pence...

I don't believe reddit banned any subreddits. Did they?

Reddit banned /r/pizzagate 12 days ago for permitting doxing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communiti...

I'm not aware of any other recent significant bans, so I don't know what user samstave means by ``They were like "Oh! BAM" A ban on /r/this and that.''

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#694

Post by johanneskanybal » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 11:38 PM UTC

Terrible.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#695

Post by makomk » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 11:38 PM UTC

estsauver wrote: post #506

This doesn't feel nonpartisan, it feels like it's actively quashing what little political traction can be gained here. And frankly, a 'detox' is absolutely the wrong word for it. The emotions for me at least come from feeling scared. I have several family members who will lose coverage if the ACA is repealed and I have muslim friends who are looking at the prospect of being sent to interment camps. This is anger and…

This is probably a good reason why political discussions aren't worthwhile on HN right now. All those terrifying prospects like Muslim internment camps and millions dying from lack of health coverage are completely in the realm of speculation right now (if not outright falsehood - I've been seeing a lot of scary, widely-believed fakes out there). Without any kind of factual specifics to ground the argument in, it just turns into an increasingly nasty faith-based fight between people who believe that this will never happen and those who disagree are maliciously fearmongering, and those who believe it's obviously going to happen and anyone who disagrees is an evil mass-murder-supporting Nazi. Neither side can prove the other wrong.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#696

Post by Mz » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 11:39 PM UTC

ben0x539 wrote: post #294

dang wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it's not possible to define "politics" precisely, and it would be a mistake to try. But there's nothing new in that; the HN guidelines have always mentioned politics without defining the term, and we get by. We can clarify, though. The main concern here is pure politics: the conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, gender, class, and religion that get people hot and turn into flamewars on the internet.…

> The main concern here is pure politics: the conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, gender, class, and religion I feel like trying to ban discussion of these conflicts will lead to the same outcome that reddit's weird "free speech" policy had, if more subtly. If Hacker News is the place where racist, misogynist, fascist hackers can feel particularly safe, that's going to be the kind of people you attract, a…

If Hacker News is the place where racist, misogynist, fascist hackers can feel particularly safe, that's going to be the kind of people you attract, at the expense of marginalized hackers.

I appear to be the top ranked openly female member here and my experience of HN dramatically improved when Dan Gackle (aka dang) took over the role as lead moderator of the site. I have faith in his judgment, plus I have substantial soft skills myself. I do not believe he is going to do anything to shape HN into the sort of thing you are positing here.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#697

Post by hindsightbias » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 11:40 PM UTC

6stringmerc wrote: post #493

TrevorJ wrote: post #131

Given that ycombinator does specifically involve themselves in issues of policy such as universal basic income and others, I find this move to be at odds with what ycombinator actually is. Once some ideas are too 'dangerous' or too contentions to be discussed, there is little hope of ever moving forward in solving the very real problems we have in this world. Characterizing values as fragile things which cannot withs…

Or, to take an even more cynical position, "While we totally can moderate discussion to keep things within our standards of conduct, we find it's too much work, and would rather just not have to deal with it." ...then go write another political policy blog post about how a board member's politics aren't representative of a company's mission, etc, rinse, repeat.

Very political board members need safe spaces too.

It's time for HN to move to an independent forum.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#698

Post by hooande » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 11:40 PM UTC

It seems like you're doing a dry run of your ability to censor the community. By asking members to flag posts pertaining to politics, you're going to drastically offer what people see by default.

And when are you going to use this newfound ability again? When you arbitrarily get tired of some other topic? And even if you use this responsibly, what about the person who has your job next?

I've been active on this site for over eight years now. We've managed to govern ourselves just fine. I really hope this isn't a moment we all point back to in the future.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#699

Post by dang » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 11:42 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #692

tarikjn wrote: post #62

I find this experiment a bit strange/disturbing, avoiding political subjects is a way of putting the head in the sand. HN is a community of hackers and entrepreneurs and politics affects these subjects one way or another wether we want to avoid it or not, and are an important component of entrepreneurial and technical subjects. It might be fine if HN was a scientific community, but it is not the case, and even then p…

I too find this to be an argumentum ad absurdum. > The values of Hacker News are intellectual curiosity > and thoughtful conversation. > For one week, political stories are off-topic. That said, I can support: > Those things are lost when political emotions seize > control. This ban should be on political emotions seizing control; not on intellectual conversation surrounding political stories.

In theory, yes, of course.

In practice, that distinction doesn't hold up—not on the public internet and not at scale. The discussions are tribal.

I'd be happy to say "No Tribalism on HN" but how would we enforce it and how could anyone comply? Tribalism is not something people have conscious control over.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#700

Post by adzicg » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 11:42 PM UTC

being outside US, I strongly support this. I couldn't care less about who leads team america world police, it's all the same anyway. HN is my tech news site, and politics is just a distraction. I understand that US citizens feel strongly about their government, but it's not really tech news.