"Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone."
-- RMS, "O'Reilly Open Source Conference: Day 3" by Paul Weinstein, in Apache Week (26 July 2002)
Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week
671–680 of 1001 posts
Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week
#672Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It often feels like there is one prevailing slant on this site and those of the majority are free to push their views while the rest of us must either read it and ignore it or face the onslaught of downvotes if we express a dissenting opinion. Are there any online communities where their political opinions match more with yours? Why don't you hang out there instead? I realize that's reinforcing an echo chamber, but…
> To take this blanket approach of "No talking about politics!" is... For one week. > "Forbidden topics" because some people's feelings are getting hurt? It's about a lot more than that, as I tried to explain in the text above. There are two different kinds of site—intellectually curious and politically combative—and we cannot be both of them.
> There are two different kinds of site—intellectually curious and politically combative—and we cannot be both of them.
I disagree. You cannot support intellectual curiosity without healthy, relatively unrestrained (in subject matter) debate.
Now, simply tribal displays that aren't debate where people engage with each other, are a problem and need to be corralled effectively to avoid becoming.the dominant form of activity.
But not only is "politically combative" not opposed to "intellectually curious" in a site, the former is essentially a necessitate to accept if you are going to have the latter.
Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week
#673Everyone on the left is calling this oppression and suppression.
Everyone on the right is calling this an affront to free speech.
When you piss off everyone, you are probably doing the right thing.
Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week
#674Everyone on the left is calling this oppression and suppression.
Everyone on the right is calling this an affront to free speech.
When you piss off everyone, you are probably doing the right thing.
Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week
#675Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you. I have a million places I can go for political discussion. Why does HN have to be one of them?
One could argue, that when you live in a democracy, politics are a necessary duty for every citizen. For a democracy to flourish, no place, no topic, no time should be unfit for discussion, because if you forbid politics, you just manifest the status quo, which doesn't have to be a-political!
> For a democracy to flourish, no place should be unfit for discussion
This is obviously false. For example, plenty of democracies have flourished despite having libraries where silence is golden.
> One could argue, that when you live in a democracy, politics are a necessary duty for every citizen.
HN is international and if I recall correctly, more than half of users are not from the USA. Some users don't live in a democracy and some don't believe in it.
Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week
#676This doesn't feel nonpartisan, it feels like it's actively quashing what little political traction can be gained here. And frankly, a 'detox' is absolutely the wrong word for it. The emotions for me at least come from feeling scared. I have several family members who will lose coverage if the ACA is repealed and I have muslim friends who are looking at the prospect of being sent to interment camps. This is anger and…
Yes, "taking a break from politics" is a privilege granted to those not directly effected by it.
Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week
#677>...it's insufficient to stop people from flaming each other when political conflicts activate the primitive brain. Under such conditions, we become tribal creatures, not intellectually curious ones. We can't be both at the same time.
I 100% agree with this analysis, but is the answer really to avoid discussion of politics altogether? I don't agree, and I think of the forums I visit, this one has the best chance of maintaining a high percentage of rational discussion to tribal noise.
Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week
#678The idea that we can carve out a space that exists outside of politics and ideology is delusional. Ideology is present everywhere. It's built in to the ways we relate to each other, to our employers, to the public and private institutions and technologies we interact with all the time, and especially the way we work and conceive of work. Ideology is often tacit, baked into our assumptions even in "non-political" area…
Of course it's delusional. The concepts can't be defined to begin with, nor can they be separated in any consistent way. And still we have to moderate this site. > the world is upside down, but think happy thoughts, folks! Here's a TED talk! It's sort of a peeve of mine that people project this onto us because I can't say how I really feel about it without breaking our own rules.
Perhaps grounding your moderation policies around concepts you know are undefined and inseparable isn't the best basis for moderating the site.
As for how people see your actions: labeling it as "projecting" might make you feel better, but probably gets in the way of you understanding what they're saying.
In today's environment, you can't simultaneously make the site an welcoming place for people who are anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, anti-feminist, anti-trans (etc.) - and for people who are Muslim, immigrant, women, trans and nonbinary people (etc) or allies to any of these groups. What people are telling you is that they see YC - and you personally - as siding with the bigots.
Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week
#679I find this experiment a bit strange/disturbing, avoiding political subjects is a way of putting the head in the sand. HN is a community of hackers and entrepreneurs and politics affects these subjects one way or another wether we want to avoid it or not, and are an important component of entrepreneurial and technical subjects. It might be fine if HN was a scientific community, but it is not the case, and even then p…
Politics is not what HN is about. This is an academic forum. If you want to talk politics, go elsewhere. This has been my position for a long time.
Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week
#680Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fully support this detox week. As someone whose political views don't align with the average HN reader, I often feel marginalized by unfair downvoting in political discussion, even though I have made my points in an informed and respectful way. It often feels like there is one prevailing slant on this site and those of the majority are free to push their views while the rest of us must either read it and ignore it…
A trouble I have with HN is the casual assumption that a subject actually has an objective truth that can be debated. Often we just don't agree on the basics of what is actually important in a philosophical sense. So every fact is just a proxy for a particular world view. It is better to question the underlying assumptions than the facts themselves. We don't need to do this with technology or buisness because we alre…
I also often see this when someone argues that a certain action by a company isn't ethical--which has no objective truth, but that makes the debate only more fruitful, IMO--and someone else then replies that this company has every (legal) right to act this way, which has more of an objective truth by most standards, but isn't very interesting at all if you don't live in the same jurisdiction, nor has it much relevance to whether the action was "right" (in the ethical sense) or not.
But then, I guess, that person has every right to conflate moral and legal rights ... so sue me? :)