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Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

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Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#451
post #402
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to be clear about three aspects of this: 1. Any views expressed here or elsewhere on HN are purely my own and not representative of the United States government or any other entity. 2. This is not about one individual act of violence. It is symptomatic of a culture created by the types of technology we discuss and implement. I happen to know many people within various spheres that do read HN, and are influence…

Your comment was rightly flagged because it broke the rules, and in the thread about the rules to boot. If you want to discuss whether this experiment is a good idea for HN, that's fine, but you need to do it without fighting a specific political fight at the same time. "The new National Security Advisor, Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, endorsed the totally false rumors that led to this shooting" is the very thing we're aski…

> Have at this in the thread

What rule was broken?

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it disturbing too. Right now one of the top stories on HN is about Amazon Go and the top comment is about whether the destruction of jobs it could cause is socially acceptable. I don't know whether that is politics or not but I can't imagine discussing Amazon Go as a technology without having that discussion. In fact when you look at HN very little is about particular technologies. Most of our discussion is ar…

I've been attending a lot of AI/Data Science conferences lately, and it's incredible to me how this is not a major part of any conversation about AI and automation. A talk I recently attended by a data scientist from Amazon had him gloating about how many jobs he could eliminate. Ironically, the only speaker who brought it up as a major social problem we'll have to tackle is someone from Uber. His solution was less t…

I think we're still in the early phase of A.I. where things seem more theoretical and thus ethics is not included in the discussion. However, as we near the time when policies will have large scale implications for our society, those consequences will be measured out. This is why I do not think A.I. will be a revolution but rather a gradual process. Already, the automation of cars is subjected to government regulation.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#453
This is an interesting experiment. I personally think decreasing the political "tone" of HN is a sensible goal, but I don't expect that this approach will do well for meeting that goal. Specifically, I don't think the people who most want HN to be political will respond well to this.

There is a reason the shadow-ban was invented: when loudmouthed/trollish users are allowed to realize they are unwelcome, they get angry, and express that anger by defacing, defaming, DDoSing, etc. the community that has rejected them.

My personal belief is that the best thing to do is to not disallow this content altogether, but rather to ghettoize it.

Two examples of this:

• How Metafilter treats posts about Metafilter: they're allowed, but they have to go into a special "meta" ghetto, separate from regular content, where only people who want to see that kind of thing will have to see it.

• 4chan frequently makes new boards—new "homes" for certain content types—just to quarantine content it doesn't like. For example, /soc/ was not created because the 4chan moderators think 4chan should have a meetups+dating board, but rather because such threads were incessant on /b/.

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Now, HN already has something quite like these approaches, but IMHO better: the "showdead" system for negative-scored posts, which ghettoizes posts but also individual comment subthreads of posts, in a very granular way.

Here's the experiment I'd like to see done, re-using the "showdead" code:

• Split downvotes into an "irrelevant/Obviously Did Not Read The Article" button and a separate "is political" button (where you can press either or both on any given post.) Track the totals separately.

• If a post's (upvotes - irrelevant) is negative, then it's "dead" as happens now, and you have to have "showdead" on to see it.

• If a post's (upvotes - is_political) is negative, then it's "politics", and you have to have "showpolitics" on to see it.

• If both scores are negative, then you have to have both filters on to see the post.

• Posts would sort/rank according to (upvotes - sqrt(irrelevant^2 + is_political^2)).

I think this alternative would ensure that the people who most want to get into tribal flamewars would "go quietly into the night" (from everyone else's perspective), rather than becoming the sworn nemesis of the community.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#454

Many of the top-level comments here are against this move. I, on the other hand, would like to express my strong support for this move. Hacker News has never been an anything-goes site. Tight moderation, considerate rules, and low tolerance for bullshit have made this a great site to talk about interesting technical topics and ideas. Remember that we all abide by the rules of the site, and that this isn't a magic fre…

I am so glad about this. The unwashed masses are ruining this site with political drivel.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#455
post #402
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to be clear about three aspects of this: 1. Any views expressed here or elsewhere on HN are purely my own and not representative of the United States government or any other entity. 2. This is not about one individual act of violence. It is symptomatic of a culture created by the types of technology we discuss and implement. I happen to know many people within various spheres that do read HN, and are influence…

Your comment was rightly flagged because it broke the rules, and in the thread about the rules to boot. If you want to discuss whether this experiment is a good idea for HN, that's fine, but you need to do it without fighting a specific political fight at the same time. "The new National Security Advisor, Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, endorsed the totally false rumors that led to this shooting" is the very thing we're aski…

You can't have a discussion about these issues without getting to brass tacks at some point.

Even setting aside how this effectively encourages the status quo: you are functionally telling women and minorities not to relate their own experiences for fear of being branded as "political" and getting flagged for it. That's bad. That's real bad. When somebody like 'tptacek says he's on-board with this because he thinks that 97.99% of politics on HN are alt-right trolling...maybe there's a problem here that isn't "politics".

I generally regard the proprietorship here with good faith even when I disagree 'cause you have always been fair and straight with concerns I've thrown your way, but this is an unmistakably dark message you're sending to your community--a message that works very much to the favor of the white supremacists who are actively pissing in your pool around here.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#456
post #376
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are inviting words for many millennials to commit to their media narratives. This type of perspective is in my opinion part of the problem, and not recognizing that this type of comment is itself part of its own narrative. When the discussions descend into repeating talking points or following a narrative, it's no longer a thoughtful, inquisitive discussion. Given that you've included one such example in the me…

What are you trying to say, in plain English?

- Your statement "many millennials to commit to their media narratives" is itself part of its own narrative.

- Making a sweeping generalization while implying a lack of nuance or legitimacy of others' contributions shows a lack of self-awareness while not contributing constructively to the discussion.

- Your including a politically charged comment in a thread about attempts to limit the negative affects of political discussion indicate just how difficult this can be for some contributors.

Edit: Even shorter: Political Detox Week is targeted, in part, at statements exactly like "These are inviting words for many millennials to commit to their media narratives".

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#457
This is a mistake. The sort of problems we have in the US can't be solved with censorship and earplugs. If anything, we need more conversation, not less.

Ditto to the many commenters who point out that nothing is apolitical and that such censorship would be subjective anyway.

Don't do this.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#458
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually haven't seen very many political stories on here. I've personally avoided most of the political crap too, so maybe I just didn't click on a lot of it (and therefore selectively un-memoryed it). I don't feel this need to be an explicit policy. I mean it gets into the entire "what is politics debate." Hackernews is about hacking (software, hardware, life), and I still see tons of that on here -- well that an…

Yeah, I'm with you. Are there political threads here that I have been missing?

Many. They get flagged off the front page, but that doesn't mean they aren't still very active. Here's a recent example that helped convince me we needed to do this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13095475

You'll need 'showdead' set to 'yes' in your profile if you want to see all the comments in it.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#459

This is a terrible decision. The tech industry has built powerful tools of social control, and runs vast databases of private data on pretty much everyone in the country. We have a golden period of forty-some days before a new administration comes to power that has shown every intent of using that information to deport people and create a national Muslim registry. We need to be talking about the political implication…

Back when I was a kid, there was a saying.

"I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death, your right to say it".

Of course, now many on the left rejoice in the censoring of all sorts of speech. I find the prevalence and acceptance of these 'crybully' tactics to be much more frightening then the terrible atrocity of actually enforcing existing immigration laws which you appear to fear so much.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a mod, but I wouldn't flag your comment. Mentioning faith-based alternatives for human interaction may not be 100% on-topic, but it isn't political or divisive. Now, if you had recommended one faith/sect over others for a superior experience of human interaction, then maybe you'd have a problem.

This detox experiment calls for all members of the community to police all comments for all mentions of the censored concepts. Regardless of whether a given comment is OK now, once this detox experiment gains steam will anyone be able to mention anything about any of the designated concepts under the anxious eyes of a newly deputized membership? (I'm specifically thinking about the 99th percentile of moderation activ…

Ah, the "Slippery Slope" fallacy. I can't prove you wrong, but time might be able to.

the downvotes will likely not be weighted. flagged comments will likely have +3 karma as much as they have -3 karma. at least, that's the hope of a 1-week moratorium, right?

To answer your question, the only thing stopping the abusive meta-moderation activity are the two mods here. So long as the posts otherwise meet the posting guidelines, they'll likely remain unmoderated. If they're not flagged, they might not even pop up on the moderator's radar.

Basically, it is up to you to point the mods at things that may or may not be abusive. Which I guess answers your question.

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