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Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

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Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#391

Post by taurath »

Discussing politics is truly a bit of a black hole - we have unlimited ability to argue for our principles but the truth is that if the sides are relatively secure in their positions and have data they trust to back it up there is no point in discussing further.

I applaud the admins for attempting something like this - communities need to develop strong opinions to survive, or else they will be torn apart by infighting when it becomes big enough that people no longer assume goodwill. This creates an ever-more toxic environment and poisons the well. At least then people are making a conscious choice to agree or disagree with the purpose/opinions of the community.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#392

Post by AndrewKemendo »

clarkmoody wrote: post #242
threatofrain wrote: post #130

If anything, Hacker News should be more political, and it ought to get its political act together. People here are always talking about moral issues, implications of technology on the working class, climate issues, accessibility, etc. Well, talking about those issues is just moral posturing without , and politics is the negotiation of power. These are all political issues. If you care about your fellow person, you al…

Did the Internet transform the economy with ? Do people ride Uber because Uber has power? Did Apple coerce people into buying its products by the billions? I think technology coupled with a market economy shows us the way that societal transformation happens from the emergent order of individuals acting in their own self-interest, rather than being forced to choose a "better way" by those in power.

Did the Internet transform the economy with ? Do people ride Uber because Uber has power?

Unquestionably. Uber has power because it occupies the bulk of mindshare for ride sharing. The internet has power because that's where people are. You can't argue that facebook, MSFT etc... don't have POWER.

Did Apple coerce people into buying its products by the billions?

You're conflating power with coercion. It's possible, and desirable, to have power without coercion. Most power is not coercive - it's called "soft power."

Though radicals could argue that even soft power is coercive.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#393

Post by madaxe_again »

ythn wrote: post #368
md224 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find this experiment a bit strange/disturbing, avoiding political subjects is a way of putting the head in the sand. This community already has its head in the sand. Political topics are flagged to oblivion, and even those that aren't inevitably inspire so much discussion that the flamewar detector goes off and nukes the thread. Imagine: in an era where we rail against filter bubbles, a website punishes threads t…

I already get TONS of political crap thrown at me on facebook and reddit, why would I want my last bastion of pure, unadulterated technology news also tainted by the very thing I'm trying to avoid? I want to come here to discuss code and technology, not to argue about Trump or Clinton.

So, where would a story about the code in voting machines sit? Anathema?

I agree that HN does not need walls of bickering partisan flames, but outlawing discussions of politics and ethics is not the way to go in my mind.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#394

Post by cryoshon »

Just passing by this thread to register intense negativity against this plan. HN shouldn't be a "safe space".

Shutting down discussion of "politics"-- the methodology of distribution of resources within a society-- is the complete opposite of gratifying intellectual curiosity and having substantive comments. How is it possible to gratify curiosity, when you're not allowed to start the discussion? How can the substance of your comments be displayed when the topic is verboten? Perhaps what dang is upset about is the tone with which these comments are conducted. Sure, they're shrill, sometimes. But isn't it natural to be shrill when discussing issues of morality and heavy consequence?

As far as HN not being intended for use as a political or ideological battlefield: that dream is dead. Technology touches every aspect of humankind, and yes, that means it's political.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#396

Post by bargl »

gibrown wrote: post #347
bargl wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I empathize with your view, but I very much disagree with you. 1) It's an experiment, there should never be any disagreement with an experiment unless the experiment itself can cause harm to someone/something. The results of this experiment should be evaluated closely, and if they make new guidelines for HN I'm fully onboard. But it's an experiment. 2) The person who shot the gun did not read HN, I may be wrong but I…

"The person who shot the gun did not read HN, I may be wrong but I feel this is a fair assumption" The systems on which that person read the false information that drove them to shoot the gun were built by people who read HN. That may sound like a lot of levels of indirection, but to ignore politics for a week seems like a symptom of pretending that we are not a part of the problem. I think the technology running the…

While I think that we should use every tool at our disposal to work to mitigate disasters like the one you mention, I also don't think it's on Technology to fix this issue itself. Facebook isn't the cause of people being stupid, people are. This is not a new issue and it is not something that the people who read this site are responsible for.

It is also an experiment. I'd like to emphasize that. It is an experiment. It is OK to not get politics on HN for a week. It will not be the cause of a global meltdown in society.

I'm also pretty confident that if some ground breaking news broke about Donald Trump wanting to launch a nuclear weapon that dang would allow that, but the current noise that is happening can be removed for a week is a good experiment.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#397

Post by giardini »

Not a gripe but an idea: rather than ban persons from HN for bad behavior, would it possibly be better to "emprison" them, that is, disallow them from posting for awhile and then, after a few days or weeks, permit them to resume posting?

Reason I ask this is that I recently encountered an HN situation where someone who appeared to be a productive member of the HN community was banned from posting because of (truly) poor etiquette, if not outright bad behavior. However, seeing that he had for over a year been a contributing member, I felt that a total ban was heavy-handed and that simply being punished temporarily for a transgression might have served better.

Is anyone familiar with an online forum that merely temporarily punishes transgressors w/o permanently banning them? Does anyone else think banning is sometimes a bit too much punishment?

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#398

Post by contingencies »

guildwriter wrote: post #156

This feels a lot like closing the barn doors after the horses have already gotten loose. This kind of action was sorely needed weeks ago, especially when political articles turned into flame wars populated by 140 char political emotional screeds. It was really disheartening to see HN turn towards the same kind of political discussion I have to endure on other sites. Especially when commentators who tended to post tho…

Barn doors and brush fires ... are you Aussie by any chance? :)

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#399

Post by int_19h »

DougN7 wrote: post #360
fnovd wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are a ton of other sites where you can follow and debate politics all you want. But where do you draw the line of what is 'politics' and what is 'cool nerdy tech stuff'? Is a breakdown of 538's method of poll aggregation too politically charged, even if there's a perfectly good overlap of math and statistics? If Trump makes an out-of-left-field statement about repatriating corporate money, are we prohibited fr…

It's a lot like that classical definition of pornography. I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. If a topic gets a lot of downvotes this week, it means it crossed the line for a lot of people. Simple :)

> I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

See, that right there is a political statement in and of itself.

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