Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#131

Post by TrevorJ » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 8:01 PM UTC

Given that ycombinator does specifically involve themselves in issues of policy such as universal basic income and others, I find this move to be at odds with what ycombinator actually is.

Once some ideas are too 'dangerous' or too contentions to be discussed, there is little hope of ever moving forward in solving the very real problems we have in this world.

Characterizing values as fragile things which cannot withstand the rigors of robust debate is also a troubling viewpoint.

edit: typo.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#132

Post by mememachine » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 8:01 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #101

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that ignoring the "virus" or "symptoms" will make the adjustment that much more traumatic There are other sites to talk about politics on. Personally, I'm happy to come to HN to learn new things. Letting the community process the new inputs vigorously might seem more traumatic in the short term but it could also make us stronger overall. An extremely active 3000-day HN user with excellent technical contributions…

An extremely active 3000-day user with excellent technical contributions was recently banned due to politics. They were banned because of what they chose to write, it wasn't just because of a political discussion.

Is there anywhere to read what they wrote?

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#133

Post by knucklesandwich » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 8:01 PM UTC

tunesmith wrote: post #61

I'm not really a fan of this move. I don't see it as an addiction that reduces its power over us by abstaining for a period of time. I also don't agree with applying system effects to individuals - while political discussion can appear to create a dulling or muting effect overall it doesn't mean that individual people aren't being positively influenced, in ways that might have even larger positive effects on the syst…

Tech is just as political as actual politics, so this explanation that political discussion "causes harm" / "war" / "emotion over reason" strikes me as incredibly facile. And frankly the notion that software engineers need to segregate our political lives from our professional lives is unbelievably self-serving to certain interests and frankly a big problem with the culture today.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#134

Post by grzm » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 8:01 PM UTC

twalling wrote: post #45

I think its a sad day that we can't attempt to be intellectually curious just because its politically related. This last election has prompted me to start reading more on both sides and has lead me to some other readings such as the constitution, economic theory, history, etc. It is possible to talk about these topics from an academic perspective and it feels like banning it for a week is equivalent to putting your h…

I understand and sympathize with what you've said here. I also know that empirically this is not the case on HN, at least not under the current environment (e.g., community, guidelines, moderation, current events and political situation). Ignoring that puts what HN is and strives to be at risk.

I've also been actively working on engaging constructively in difficult, contentious conversation. HN is one forum. If politics is on area that's generally avoided here for the benefit of quality discussion on other topics, there are other forums where one can. And perhaps after a detox week (or two?), constructive political might work on HN. I certainly hope so, but am also aware of how difficult that can be in person, and even more so online.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#135

Post by ianstormtaylor » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 8:02 PM UTC

minimaxir wrote: post #2

It's worth noting that in order to flag a comment, you must click the permalink first. I've seen political stories flagged pretty quickly during normal HN usage, but rarely comment threads.

I think this is a great point.

I assume putting the "flag" button one click away is to prevent people using it as a down vote when arguing, but it definitely means that I never flag comments, only stories. And comments are the place where "politicalness" really has the damaging effects.

I wonder if there might be either an opt-in to keep it zero clicks away, or maybe over a certain amount of karma it is visible, or some other compromise so that proper comment flagging is more widespread.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#136

Post by mbesto » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 8:02 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #48

rustyfe wrote: post #32

One question that interests/concerns me is making judgement calls about what is/is not a political story. Some links will be cut and dry, some will not. Some comments will be immediately identified as political, some will just be politics adjacent. For instance, on a story about self driving cars, will it be appropriate to talk about UBI? On a story about cryptography, will it be acceptable to talk about how it appli…

Right, it's not possible to define "politics" precisely, and it would be a mistake to try. But there's nothing new in that; the HN guidelines have always mentioned politics without defining the term, and we get by. We can clarify, though. The main concern here is pure politics: the conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, gender, class, and religion that get people hot and turn into flamewars on the internet.…

I have an idea - if it's in reference to a topic of CNN, NYT, WSJ, and WaPo's politics sections then it shouldn't be on HN.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#137

Post by pfarnsworth » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 8:02 PM UTC

dang, doing things like this is turning HN more into reddit with heavy-handing modding, than just letting the community dictate for itself what it wants to see. The community has existed and guided itself a lot longer than the time you've been around, I think you should trust us.

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#138

Post by mememachine » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 8:02 PM UTC

KineticLensman wrote: post #122

tarikjn wrote: post #62

I find this experiment a bit strange/disturbing, avoiding political subjects is a way of putting the head in the sand. HN is a community of hackers and entrepreneurs and politics affects these subjects one way or another wether we want to avoid it or not, and are an important component of entrepreneurial and technical subjects. It might be fine if HN was a scientific community, but it is not the case, and even then p…

> I find this experiment a bit strange/disturbing, avoiding political subjects is a way of putting the head in the sand. I see this great move as a way of the community lifting its head out of a sandy quagmire to glance at the shining beacon, the vision on the hill, the where we want to be, unsullied by political nausea. Sure, in a week we can get back into the grim reality, the tech-noir crapsack future, but perhaps…

Not all of us view political topics as nausea inducing.

I don't think politics have overtaken the site or even become a significant part of it, so I wonder why politics-averse individuals cant just avoid political threads?

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#139

Post by jprzybyl » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 8:02 PM UTC

I think this is a good idea. I realize that, you know, freedom of speech and all, but this is called HACKER NEWS.

I would personally like it best if the political news just lessened overall, rather than stopping entirely for a week, but what can you do. Can't just tell people "actually, the political thermometer is at 25°C, gotta let it cool down to 21°C."

Re: Tell HN: Political Detox Week – No politics on HN for one week

#140

Post by dang » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 8:02 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #126

dang wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it's not possible to define "politics" precisely, and it would be a mistake to try. But there's nothing new in that; the HN guidelines have always mentioned politics without defining the term, and we get by. We can clarify, though. The main concern here is pure politics: the conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, gender, class, and religion that get people hot and turn into flamewars on the internet.…

>The main concern here is pure politics: the conflicts around party, ideology, nation, race, and religion that get people hot and turn into flamewars on the internet. Am I to read that as "No Stories or Comments about Trump"? Maybe that wasn't the intention, but the specific hot buttons seem curiously chosen.

What hot buttons did I miss? I can think of gender. I'll add that one.

Edit: class, too.

Perhaps I should make explicit what seems obvious (to me) and say no, this doesn't have to do specifically with Trump. This whole year has been a political game-changer—think of Brexit before it. Perhaps our societies are becoming increasingly polarized, I don't know, but lots of things are going on in the outside world and Trump is just one of them, though of course a major one.

I wonder if developments on other online forums might be characterizing how this one seems to some users, but the truth is pretty mundane: I don't know about those other online forums because I don't have time to look at them. What we're talking about here is purely HN-grown.