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Amazon Go

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Re: Amazon Go

#241

Post by camtarn »

tdaltonc wrote: post #55

Is the basic idea that there are cameras everywhere and they watch and record everything you touch? Now I can't stop thinking about the behavioral analytics. Can they get rough pupil dilation data? I'm sure they can get facial expressions and maybe gaze tracking. Next step is using kiva bots to rearrange/restock the isles when no one is looking.

Ha, that's a great idea. Partition purchases by hour, figure out which products are bought disproportionately often in particular hours, and for the top three of those products, Kiva their shelves either to the front of the store (if you want to optimize for greatest throughput) or the back of the store (to optimize for longest time-in-store to increase impulse buys) ;)

Re: Amazon Go

#242

Post by cobookman »

stevenmays wrote: post #172
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wouldn't trust 'picked up off the shelf' detection, not without the whole thing looking like a giant vending machine. RFID tags on products probably works better.

I think RFID tags are too expensive to put on every product. I may be wrong on this.

RAIN Rfid tag is < 10cents.

Re: Amazon Go

#243

Post by owenversteeg »

How has nobody mentioned the worry that you'll get overcharged? I'm sure computer vision isn't perfect, however close it may be, and once you've left the store (presumably when you'd check your receipt) there's no way to prove you didn't take whatever you were charged for. I'd be pretty worried about accidentally "buying" something I didn't actually take, even if that's statistically unlikely. (Yeah, I know, it doesn't make sense to worry about a 1 in 10,000 event, but people aren't rational.)

Or, if they decide to side with the consumer and give you your money back, then that opens them up to theft - go in, buy stuff, "oh I didn't buy $expensive_item!", get money.

Re: Amazon Go

#244

Post by nmeofthestate »

crottypeter wrote: post #197
BjoernKW wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesco also has pushed self scanning tills for years now. However, the number of employees working at the cash register is still the same because those scanners sometimes do not work and most importantly their user experience is deplorable. So, you frequently have to ask someone for help (and I'm in my mid-thirties and very tech-savvy. I can only imagine how someone twice my age would feel when using these scanners).

Terrible UX is spot-on. I was using one of these just this morning: got all my shopping onto the scale/shelf and was getting ready to pay. The machine asks how many 5p bags I used. So I start packing the stuff into my backpack to find out whether I need a bag. The machine pipes up: "Did you remove something from the scale?" The screen has a full screen modal warning that I have to put the shopping back. I put the thi…

You're supposed to put your bag on the scale at the start when it asks if you brought bag(s). Fill it, then fill 5p bags if necessary.

Re: Amazon Go

#245

Post by monsieurbanana »

Karunamon wrote: post #220
DashRattlesnake wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, that's an "incentive" that should be illegal. You should only get charged for something if you actually take it home or use it. Anything else is a cop out to push the costs of a deficient system onto the user/customer.

It's the store's fault when you selfishly and silently put perishable goods in non-refrigerated areas so they can spoil? IMO the store would have the right to charge you with destruction of property, if not the cost of the goods they're now out entirely due to your actions. The number of people that never learned "put stuff back where you got it" from their parents is astounding.

> It's the store's fault when you selfishly and silently put perishable goods in non-refrigerated areas so they can spoil?

I find it really annoying when people put words into somebody's mouth.

Misplaced perishable goods are certainly a problem, but not the one they're discussing right now.

Re: Amazon Go

#246

Post by benmcnelly »

cobookman wrote: post #146
joezydeco wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the system works like that. From my first quick take of the video, the app+turnstyle is used to identify you to the store. The video system then tracks your position as you walk around. When you walk out, the items are recognized and tallied by a large RFID sweep. Funneling you back out through a turnstyle makes sure the vision system knows it's you. Notice that you don't need to barcode yourself on the…

Not as crazy as it sounds. With RAIN Rfid you can get the xyz location of a tag from ~30ft away accurate to 6" in realtime. Examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1LykdRWTfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hCA8L7v-R8

Also, since the app is still on your phone there is no reason they can't be using it to gather data as well.

Re: Amazon Go

#247

Post by pmarreck »

elicash wrote: post #43

I worked at a grocery store for several years, and one thing I recall is customers CONSTANTLY putting items back in a random aisle, rather than where they found it. I wonder how this tech deals with that? Maybe they figured that out, too. But I was amused in the video when I saw the customer putting it back where it belonged, because that's not how I remember that going... All that said, this is fantastic and excitin…

It could be flagged as "must restock"... one cool thing is it could then tell you exactly where it needs to go back to, finding that was always a pain (source: I was a cashier in a large grocery store, once upon a time)

To this day (20-odd years later), I always put grocery items back where I found them (and bag my own groceries). Don't be a dick.

Re: Amazon Go

#248

Post by TulliusCicero »

SCHiM wrote: post #165
TulliusCicero wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, I'm sure there'll be legions of hackers stealing groceries in meatspace for kicks while being watched by multitudes of cameras.

Heh your definition of the word hacker is way too narrow if you think all we're doing to sitting around behind screens all day spouting 31337 sp34k on the interwebz. No, you're wrong. If it can be done it will be done. It's just too much reward versus the risk. Stealing this way scales too well. In a normal shop the risk of detection is variable, and therefore higher on average. Sometimes people will be alert, someti…

Sure a few will do it for fun. Most won't though, because it's still stealing things and there'll be a non-trivial chance of getting caught.

Re: Amazon Go

#249

Post by rhino369 »

elicash wrote: post #43

I worked at a grocery store for several years, and one thing I recall is customers CONSTANTLY putting items back in a random aisle, rather than where they found it. I wonder how this tech deals with that? Maybe they figured that out, too. But I was amused in the video when I saw the customer putting it back where it belonged, because that's not how I remember that going... All that said, this is fantastic and excitin…

This made me think of a possible exploit. If these sensors are using weight sensors and cameras, it might be possible to pick up similar items and then put back the much cheaper version.

Re: Amazon Go

#250

Post by pimeys »

joezydeco wrote: post #137
Someone1234 wrote: post #18

Companies have been discussing "checkout-less" stores since forever, but nobody has been brave enough to do it due to the perceived threat of shoplifting. And while shoplifting is a legitimate threat, are non-shoplifters going to be turned into shoplifters without a checkout? Are normal shoplifters stopped by checkouts? These are the core questions, and until it is tested nobody will know for sure. Target is getting…

Here in Chicago the Jewel/Osco chain of grocery stores tried handheld scanners mated with the self-checkout systems about 10 years ago. I lived near one of the test stores. It worked pretty well, but from what I heard the shoplifting rate was a lot higher than the comfort level of the store's executives. There really is no way to check that you've scanned every single thing in a large cart full of goods. They experim…

> RFID could fix that if we're really close to being able to scan a whole cart full of goods in one sweep (which the Amazon project seems to imply). But then you have an issue where every single vendor to your store needs to be inserting compatible tags into the packaging. That adds cost and logistics.

I remember seeing this working when I was in university [0]. They just couldn't focus on supermarkets because the tags were too expensive (10-15 cents per tag).

[0] http://www.vilant.com/

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