Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#161

Post by TheGirondin » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #75

k-mcgrady wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Facebook simply kills democracy for their own benefit." No, people and politicians are killing democracy. People choose to get their news from unreliable sources. They act like they care about an issue yet only know the headline. But they can sign an online petition and post it on social media so they look and feel good. Politicians can openly lie on the largest of stages. When called out on it (which rarely happ…

Indeed. Fake news sarts at the top. From today's Mail: "Now for Italexit! Italian Prime Minister resigns after EU referendum loss" https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/805670033875726336 .. except that the referendum has nothing to do with the EU, it was about internal constitutional change, and Italy is no closer to leaving the EU. People read the Mail and Express because they don't care about whether their news is…

They read the Mail and Express because their counterparts are biased and devoted to pushing narratives, and have little interest in informing anyone when it's inconvenient to their worldview.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#162

Post by pjc50 » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 3:12 PM UTC

TheGirondin wrote: post #161

pjc50 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Fake news sarts at the top. From today's Mail: "Now for Italexit! Italian Prime Minister resigns after EU referendum loss" https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/805670033875726336 .. except that the referendum has nothing to do with the EU, it was about internal constitutional change, and Italy is no closer to leaving the EU. People read the Mail and Express because they don't care about whether their news is…

They read the Mail and Express because their counterparts are biased and devoted to pushing narratives, and have little interest in informing anyone when it's inconvenient to their worldview.

They read the Mail and Express because those papers are biased and devoted to pushing narratives, surely?

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#163

Post by nileshtrivedi » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 3:14 PM UTC

ohstopitu wrote: post #131

andrewvijay wrote: post #6

> We are not in the business of picking which issues the world should read about. We are in the business of connecting people and ideas — and matching people with the stories they find most meaningful. Our integrity depends on being inclusive of all perspectives and view points, and using ranking to connect people with the stories and sources they find the most meaningful and engaging. Simply incredible. They are ass…

funny enough, I have extended family in India that went through the entire process and had lots of issues, but even then, I only heard praises of the govt's efforts, nothing against it. After you mentioned, I decided to look up news against the effort and I realized there was a lot of news against it but it not only didn't appear on my Facebook, but also on Twitter and Reddit (one of the few places where I expected t…

On the other hand, news (both TV and online) can often be sensationalist. This is from today (regarding Jayalalitha's death): https://twitter.com/krishashok/status/805686249927241728

Media is going through a severe credibility crisis.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#164

Post by 0xfeba » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 3:22 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #159

pjc50 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> inciting violence I don't think there's actually a clear dividing line for this, especially when we consider "dog whistle politics" and things like the notorious "blood libel", Protocols of the Elders of Zion , etc; there's definitely a category of material which is both false/misleading and intended to incite prejudice against a particular group - but stops short of mentioning actual violence.

I wrote a reply to this asking about the alternate category of material which is both true/accurate and also intended to incite negative feelings. That comment was flagged to death. I guess that's the answer - it's not just "fake" news we want suppressed.

I read the post before it was removed. I don't agree with a lot of it (like declaring lists of things true and then qualifying individual items with "probably because"), but I get your point.

You have to tread very carefully. A better example would be a statement made by Trump's recent pick for National Security Adviser, Michael Flynn, in his book "The Field of Fight":

"I don't believe all cultures are morally equivalent"

Just that statement seems to bother many people, enough to have it included in Trevor Noah's Daily Show recently.

But why? Why is that statement such a big deal? I believe Western culture is better than, say, Saudi Arabian culture. I realize there is no objective standard to base this on, but even if it is the same nationalism/tribalism Saudi Arabians judge Western culture, so be it. If you make the argument that we can't judge other cultures, wouldn't it also be true that you can't say they're equivalent, since that is judging them?

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#165

Post by Aqueous » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 3:25 PM UTC

aikah wrote: post #17

andrewvijay wrote: post #6

> We are not in the business of picking which issues the world should read about. We are in the business of connecting people and ideas — and matching people with the stories they find most meaningful. Our integrity depends on being inclusive of all perspectives and view points, and using ranking to connect people with the stories and sources they find the most meaningful and engaging. Simply incredible. They are ass…

> Facebook simply kills democracy for their own benefit. Give me a break. It's not Facebook's job to tell the truth from the lies. They provide a social network, for profit. They are not a charity or a non profit. They sell ads. If "news filtering" aligns with their bottom-line they'll do it, if it doesn't, they won't, that's business. Now to anybody who thinks he can control the internet and what people read/think/d…

Unfortunately, a large percentage of the world's population is on Facebook which means that a large percentage of the world's news is being consumed through Facebook. Many would argue that, simply due to the enormous amount of power it wields, Facebook has a responsibility to look past its narrow commercial interests.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#166

Post by pyrophane » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 3:26 PM UTC

dpandey wrote: post #150

A huge part of the story seems to be around confirmation bias (people like reading stuff that supports what they already believe). While confirmation bias is a fact of life, reading fake stories to confirm your bias is not something that anybody wants to do, regardless of how irrational the bias is. Facebook obviously doesn't want to be seen as having influenced the election so they're unwilling to say anything that…

> But Zuckerberg has shown boldness and maturity as one of the best CEOs time and again

In what respect?

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#167

Post by lovich » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 3:26 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #159

pjc50 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> inciting violence I don't think there's actually a clear dividing line for this, especially when we consider "dog whistle politics" and things like the notorious "blood libel", Protocols of the Elders of Zion , etc; there's definitely a category of material which is both false/misleading and intended to incite prejudice against a particular group - but stops short of mentioning actual violence.

I wrote a reply to this asking about the alternate category of material which is both true/accurate and also intended to incite negative feelings. That comment was flagged to death. I guess that's the answer - it's not just "fake" news we want suppressed.

The closest I've seen to something like that is when a country's merits or good deeds are being discussed and someone brings up past mistakes/atrocities. An example would be bringing up Unit 731 when discussing Japan giving aid to some country as a reason that Japan is evil.

As an aside, I frequently see your comments flagged to death and have used you as an example of how a community will create its own bubble. I happen to disagree with 99% of every post I have ever seen by you, but I've yet to flag a post just for being infuriating.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#168

Post by herbst » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 3:26 PM UTC

Pigo wrote: post #149

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why anyone and especially facebook should care about fake news is beyond me. I may be wrong but didnt the outcry against fake news and Facebook come as a result of the US presidential election? Many people are looking for someone or something to blame for the unexpected results.

Everyone is dressing it up as being about something else, but this is the central point. None of this would be an issue if Clinton had been elected. The left wants some self-flagellation now by those they thought were in their pocket. If things had gone the other way, everyone complaining would be making Trump meme's right now to post in their favorite walled wonderland. Next we'll be hearing about how the expansion…

^ this. If you learn history in Austria today you learn how the bad nazis forced them into voting for yes. If you learn it everywhere else you realize they just liked the idea of work and a "german race".

IMO they are just trying to rationalize how this could happen and chance history by blaming facebook.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#169

Post by herbst » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 3:32 PM UTC

edblarney wrote: post #153

herbst wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If you are in a specific subreddit for example it is also biased. Even the "all" page is biased because reddit is reddit, but no one complains. I assume also because people on reddit realize reddit is just a tool and not build their lives a round it which seems to be the case with a lot of facebook users.

"I assume also because people on reddit realize reddit is just a tool and not build their lives a round" Maybe they don't live their lives around it, but they are very influenced by it, and don't realize it. I'm fully aware the 'Daily Show' is comedy and not real, but I found myself watching it almost exclusively as news for years ... and didn't realize how far down the rabbit hole I was.

I sure see your issue. But wouldnt you laugh as well if people would suggest to blame Daily Show for missinformation because they stretch the truth?

My point is the people are the issue and not the platform. The american election is a good example. Only about 50% went voting, they could have easily voted for a third party for example. From them who went voting the majority did not vote for trump ether. And still people try to find the issue with facebook other than themself and their government.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#170

Post by pimlottc » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 3:43 PM UTC

GotAnyMegadeth wrote: post #94

flueedo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been off of facebook for years now, but I doubt nowadays most people see the "like" buttons as an instrument for teaching the website algorithms to help keep themselves open minded. (Assuming this stratategy indeed works, since it's known this isn't the only variable they consider) And I don't think this isn't the purpose of feed 'customization' either. It's about making money by assuring advertisers that their…

As a relatively heavy FB user, I use the like button as a "I've read this" button for my friend's comments and statuses, and not at all otherwise.

So basically you "Like" everything you read? I've heard this is overwhelming common behavior in some southeast Asian companies, like Thailand, if I remember correctly.