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Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

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Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#151

Post by ivanhoe »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #82
ivanhoe wrote: post #42

How is this different from news sites? They also earn the most of money from advertisers and the main criteria for those advertisers are page views. We still completely lack a viable internet business model that would strongly encourage the quality and not quantity...

> How is this different from news sites? I thought that was very clear from reading the article. FB tailors the feed to each user making sure that they don't see things that they may not like. In contrast to that, news sites cater to large segments of the population and they have to in order to be economically successful. The result is that news sites will always present us with some amount of material that is contra…

Only if you actively dislike the stories that you "don't like". I for instance often comment & discuss on news that I totally disagree with, and I keep seeing them regularly in my newsfeed. Also it depends very much on people that you follow. I follow many people with whom I don't share political views at all exactly because they share different stories with a different perspective than mine. That gives you a better understanding and also works very good to filter faux news, as one side will always approach it sceptically and debunk them quickly...

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#152

Post by welanes »

grive wrote: post #114
welanes wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are asserting themselves only as a business and not emotional influencers...The emotional influences that facebook brings in people is very powerful. The same could be said of TV networks, Spotify, Twitter, Google photos. We are the catalyst that turn stories, music, photos into emotional reactions. We control the dials. Facebook makes it incredibly easy to step outside our bubbles. Click the Like button on a…

> Click the Like button on a Page that challenges your beliefs, interact with that information and you'll see more of it. That's precisely the problem with it. I'd like to read more on extremists groups and see how and why they exists, what kind of people they are, why do they think the way they do, what their fight is in our society. This is the first step to build a dialog. However, "liking" their pages is out of q…

> There should be a way for us to navigate different bubbles, to inhabit different, neutral profiles to explore other niches of population

Twitter is the app for that. Set up lists of different individuals so you can switch between different viewpoints in two clicks. No need to follow anybody on your list.

It's actually fascinating to do so. Watch 'the reality' of a current or political event contort as you switch from 'Liberal', 'Conservative', 'Regressive Left', 'Alt-Right' streams of thought.

In fact, that would make an interesting website. A Twitter version of http://graphics.wsj.com/blue-feed-red-feed .

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#153

Post by edblarney »

herbst wrote: post #139
edblarney wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is valid. Facebook might have a 'moral responsibility' on a civic level, to address issues within it's community, but ultimately, if people are choosing what they are going to read, well then so bit it. Suppose someone invented an 'open ranking' system whereby news and content from various sties was socially ranked, but wherein there was no 'central platform' ... we would see the same thing but have nobody to bl…

Exactly. If you are in a specific subreddit for example it is also biased. Even the "all" page is biased because reddit is reddit, but no one complains. I assume also because people on reddit realize reddit is just a tool and not build their lives a round it which seems to be the case with a lot of facebook users.

"I assume also because people on reddit realize reddit is just a tool and not build their lives a round"

Maybe they don't live their lives around it, but they are very influenced by it, and don't realize it.

I'm fully aware the 'Daily Show' is comedy and not real, but I found myself watching it almost exclusively as news for years ... and didn't realize how far down the rabbit hole I was.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#154

Post by mememachine »

andrewvijay wrote: post #6

> We are not in the business of picking which issues the world should read about. We are in the business of connecting people and ideas — and matching people with the stories they find most meaningful. Our integrity depends on being inclusive of all perspectives and view points, and using ranking to connect people with the stories and sources they find the most meaningful and engaging. Simply incredible. They are ass…

>openly calling for censorship

appalling, you are.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#156

Post by herbst »

pg314 wrote: post #143
herbst wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Lets assume the onion is suddenly the main news source for a majority even thought they are open about beeing fake. Where is the problem? If people choose to live in their bubble its their choice.

It becomes a problem if these people following the onion would affect the outcome of an election. Even a democratically elected leader can be a problem (e.g. Mussolini was democratically elected). To function a democracy requires citizens to be well-informed and critical.

Half of the U.S. didnt even vote, the majority did not vote for Trump ether. Hitler was democratically elected too btw (at least in austria), but that means nothing because people actually wanted him.

I dont see how facebook is to blame here, there are obviously other things going wrong.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#157

Post by ambicapter »

sparkzilla wrote: post #92
zdkl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the bigger question as far as I've come to think of it: is a for profit company compatible with the role facebook is filling?

While it appears as though your question is framed to get the answer that a non-profit could do Facebook's task better, there are other options. The core question is: is a social network compatible with news? There are other for-profit models that can work. A simple variation is not to use algorithmic presentation of the news feed at all and allow users to select the news they want to see, and to show all the news ab…

Facebook needs to add the :thinking_face: emoji to its range of reactions.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#158

Post by vasaulys »

welanes wrote: post #152
grive wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Click the Like button on a Page that challenges your beliefs, interact with that information and you'll see more of it. That's precisely the problem with it. I'd like to read more on extremists groups and see how and why they exists, what kind of people they are, why do they think the way they do, what their fight is in our society. This is the first step to build a dialog. However, "liking" their pages is out of q…

> There should be a way for us to navigate different bubbles, to inhabit different, neutral profiles to explore other niches of population Twitter is the app for that. Set up lists of different individuals so you can switch between different viewpoints in two clicks. No need to follow anybody on your list. It's actually fascinating to do so. Watch 'the reality' of a current or political event contort as you switch fr…

I'm surprised that more people don't know about lists, it seems like Twitter doesn't promote it as much as they should.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#159

Post by yummyfajitas »

pjc50 wrote: post #123
noxToken wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The stuff that goes round on facebook is often both hyper-partisan and low quality, because people are sharing it for group-belonging purposes not for use as facts. This is only tangentially related. This is why the pieces lambasting Tomi Lahran saying that views like here don't deserve a platform are, in my opinion, wrong.[0] It was the 2nd second result after searching for that interview, and I've seen it shared…

> inciting violence I don't think there's actually a clear dividing line for this, especially when we consider "dog whistle politics" and things like the notorious "blood libel", Protocols of the Elders of Zion , etc; there's definitely a category of material which is both false/misleading and intended to incite prejudice against a particular group - but stops short of mentioning actual violence.

I wrote a reply to this asking about the alternate category of material which is both true/accurate and also intended to incite negative feelings. That comment was flagged to death.

I guess that's the answer - it's not just "fake" news we want suppressed.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#160

Post by intoverflow2 »

jerluc wrote: post #15
mozumder wrote: post #7

Social media sites always end up turning toxic. The problem is that they give a voice to all the mindless idiots of society. These people should never be given a voice. There is no justification for that. Voices should always be edited and filtered by higher powers. The common opinion is worth nothing, since we already know what it is, so why repeat it?

I think the ultimate issue specifically with Facebook is not that you shouldn't give people voices online, but rather that when the voices form small, tight-knit echo chambers with zero outside challenge, the outcome can be disastrous. I believe this is why the author calls it a "walled wonderland".

To me this is actually an argument against extensive moderation mozumder is suggesting.

Echo chamber is still an echo chamber even if you like the sound of the echoes.

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