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Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

shamrin.posterous.com

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Re: Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

#71

Post by Silhouette »

Tichy wrote: post #64
codyrobbins wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using their service completely free, so I don't think you are really entitled to any say on the matter. If you were paying for it you might have some reasonable expectation that they leave your content intact, but you're not. It's like complaining about high taxes and then turning around and complaining that the government isn't sending everyone's children to college for free. You can't have it both ways. I th…

So whenever I use a free service, they are basically entitled to do whatever they want? What kind of logic is that? If they can't handle it, people shouldn't offer a free service. But don't run a service for "free" and then try to make money with shady business practices. In other words, you are not entitled to running a service for free.

> So whenever I use a free service, they are basically entitled to do whatever they want?

Well, legally speaking, they probably are, yes. You get what you pay for, and the current entitlement culture because a lot of "free" on-line services don't come with financial strings does not negate this basic fact of life.

Now, whether they should disclose that they are doing this so that those using their service can decide whether or not they wish to continue doing so is an entirely different question.

Re: Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

#72

Post by codyrobbins »

Tichy wrote: post #64
codyrobbins wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using their service completely free, so I don't think you are really entitled to any say on the matter. If you were paying for it you might have some reasonable expectation that they leave your content intact, but you're not. It's like complaining about high taxes and then turning around and complaining that the government isn't sending everyone's children to college for free. You can't have it both ways. I th…

So whenever I use a free service, they are basically entitled to do whatever they want? What kind of logic is that? If they can't handle it, people shouldn't offer a free service. But don't run a service for "free" and then try to make money with shady business practices. In other words, you are not entitled to running a service for free.

The answer to your first question is unequivocally yes (within the confines of the law, of course). Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the rest of us, you don't get to dictate the terms under which people offer free services.

I don't find Posterous's business practices shady at all—they found a way to offer a free service to people while at the same time making some money off it in a way that users don't even need to be aware of. I think that is the definition of creating value—it's a mutually beneficial relationship. I don’t like how you’re trying to imply they're somehow immoral just because you don’t like what they’re doing.

If you don't like the way they do it, don't use it. Your content is being hosted at their pleasure. It’s like living rent-free at your aunt’s house and then getting ticked off when she sublets the basement to help cover the rent. You have no right to be upset over that—it’s her house.

Re: Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

#73

Post by rantfoil »

xelipe wrote: post #52
floodfx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FF makes money off revenue generated when you search and click on google ad. They do not replace links on content that you generate without telling you. Apples/Oranges my friend... Personally I use posterous as my personal site and I don't appreciate this.

I agree. There is a big difference between getting a cut from generated search result (which is expected to change over time) and a users' blog post (which is often static after written). And don't get with the problem with will cause to the linked sites in term of Google juice.

There's no Google impact here -- Viglink is javascript behavior. Link juice is utterly unchanged.

Re: Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

#74

Post by Tichy »

Silhouette wrote: post #71
Tichy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So whenever I use a free service, they are basically entitled to do whatever they want? What kind of logic is that? If they can't handle it, people shouldn't offer a free service. But don't run a service for "free" and then try to make money with shady business practices. In other words, you are not entitled to running a service for free.

> So whenever I use a free service, they are basically entitled to do whatever they want? Well, legally speaking, they probably are, yes. You get what you pay for, and the current entitlement culture because a lot of "free" on-line services don't come with financial strings does not negate this basic fact of life. Now, whether they should disclose that they are doing this so that those using their service can decide…

Why would there be different rules for businesses, depending on whether their offering is free or not? Suppose posterous would charge 5$/month for their blog hosting, and still would add the affiliate links, what would it change in your opinion?

I don't think it is illegal to add those links. I for one will stay away from them, though.

Also, Facebook is free. Why did they bother to introduce new terms of service at all? According to you, they could just do whatever they want?

Re: Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

#75

Post by rantfoil »

dave1619 wrote: post #41

Weird. I posted a simple link, http://www.apple.com/wwdc on our blog ( http://gpapps.com ), and I get this crazy sequence of forwards: http://clk.tradedoubler.com/click?p=2554&a=1503186&g... http://registration.euro.apple.com/cgi-bin/trade-cookie.cgi?... http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/?aosid=p204&siteid=15031... All I want is my readers to go to the simple http://apple.com/wwdc link and not all that junk. Posterous…

Your blog http://gpapps.com/ is not hosted on Posterous.

This is unrelated to the discussion at hand.

Re: Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

#76

Post by buro9 »

jorgeortiz85 wrote: post #65
buro9 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just occurred to me... Posterous could make themselves THE publishing platform by simply sharing the revenue again. All they need do is to act like another viglink or skimlinks and to record the clicks made per publisher using their platform. Then offer the publisher 50% of the revenue. This is then an incentive to use Posterous beyond all of the ease of use. Anything you posted that included a potentially monet…

This would turn 90% of Posterous content into affiliate spam.

I don't think so. Those who do spam wouldn't be up for giving viglink 25% and then settling for only half of the remaining 75%.

Spammers aren't entirely stupid, they'd go register direct and do what they usually do (set up little spam bait sites) as that would be way more profitable.

This would help small publishers more than it would assist spammers.

Re: Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

#77

Post by a4agarwal »

Hey guys,

Posterous partnered with Viglink.com back in December as an experiment to see if we could generate revenue by adding an affiliate code to links that don't already have one. We chose to work with Viglink because their technology doesn't interfere with the user experience at all.

1. Links in Posterous posts are not edited in any way 2. Viglink javascript intercepts clicks and adds an affiliate code when possible 3. Affiliate codes are not stripped or altered if they already exist 4. Copying links is unchanged

Before deploying this change, we tested it heavily to make sure we weren't doing anything that would be visible to the publisher or reader. The fact that it took 4 months for someone to really notice this is a testament to how unobtrusive it is.

Some people have commented that we should be sharing revenue back to the users. You are absolutely right. This is something we mentioned to Viglink at our very first meeting with them and something we will add when it's technically possible.

Admittedly, we should have announced this on our blog. This was definitely an oversight on our part. Our goal is to be 100% transparent with everything we do at Posterous, especially when it affects your blog and content.

From Posterous, we apologize. Going forward we will be sure to notify you of any changes we make to the site.

With regards to viglink: we really appreciate all your feedback and we're going to evaluate our use of the service going forward.

-Sachin cofounder, posterous.com

Re: Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

#78

Post by Tichy »

codyrobbins wrote: post #72
Tichy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So whenever I use a free service, they are basically entitled to do whatever they want? What kind of logic is that? If they can't handle it, people shouldn't offer a free service. But don't run a service for "free" and then try to make money with shady business practices. In other words, you are not entitled to running a service for free.

The answer to your first question is unequivocally yes (within the confines of the law, of course). Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the rest of us, you don't get to dictate the terms under which people offer free services. I don't find Posterous's business practices shady at all—they found a way to offer a free service to people while at the same time making some money off it in a way that users don't even…

Even a free service has some "terms", as you said. Neglecting certain aspects of the service (hidden costs) in the terms is fraud in my opinion. Now in this case it probably isn't illegal, but I just don't understand your logic in general. How does offering anything for free justify anything?

Picking up on your renting example: if aunty offers me to let me live there for free indefinitely, and I move my stuff there at considerable costs, I think I would be pissed off. Not that I personally would like the arrangement to begin with, but still.

Re: Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

#79

Post by Silhouette »

Tichy wrote: post #74
Silhouette wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So whenever I use a free service, they are basically entitled to do whatever they want? Well, legally speaking, they probably are, yes. You get what you pay for, and the current entitlement culture because a lot of "free" on-line services don't come with financial strings does not negate this basic fact of life. Now, whether they should disclose that they are doing this so that those using their service can decide…

Why would there be different rules for businesses, depending on whether their offering is free or not? Suppose posterous would charge 5$/month for their blog hosting, and still would add the affiliate links, what would it change in your opinion? I don't think it is illegal to add those links. I for one will stay away from them, though. Also, Facebook is free. Why did they bother to introduce new terms of service at a…

> Suppose posterous would charge 5$/month for their blog hosting, and still would add the affiliate links, what would it change in your opinion?

It is fundamentally different in law as soon as there is consideration in both directions, because then you have the basis of a contract.

However, if users aren't paying for the service (or otherwise giving some significant benefit to the service provider) then there is unlikely to be a legal basis for any obligation on the part of a service provider to those users. You can't have a one-way contract.

IANAL etc., but this is elementary contract law.

> According to you, [Facebook] could just do whatever they want?

Yes, they probably could, in law. Whether it is a smart PR move to alienate users of your free service by doing something that your user base does not like is a different question. After all, your users have no obligation to you either beyond whatever the use of your service is worth to them.

Re: Posterous silently changes all external links to affiliate links

#80

Post by ALee »

I for one have no problems with this. I mean these guys host my stuff for free, right?

Well, people probably don't know that wordpress.com and a bunch of services that host your content for free also use services very similar to this.

Everyone's getting angry at something that has been happening on sites for the past 2-3 years already.

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