A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar) • Hacker News Board

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#61

Post by intrasight » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 7:14 PM UTC

lsadam0 wrote: post #40

buckhx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1% is WWWAAAYYY too low. The stack overflow survey in a sibling comment had 30%. Some of us don't love all the baggage that comes with a full IDE.

I would bet that it's really in the single digit range. I think lots of programmers dishonestly claim to use it because its some sort of badge of honor to say you do.

Is more from old habits than a badge of honor. Fewer new developers use emacs or vi for coding. But I think "single digits" is too low too. I've been to talks by Microsoft engineers where they code using vi or emacs. One of the reasons is that the IDEs are always a step behind the languages.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#62

Post by x0x0 » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 7:26 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #53

tastythrowaway2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always used Ctrl-[ instead of escape. it sends the same character code but keeps my hands at the home row. great for when you're on a roll and don't want to break your flow.

Which is why 'fd' as a key combo is even more useful than Ctrl-[. The keys are right there on the home row buttons themselves!

but f is one of the best commands in vim (fX finds the next instance of X on that line only; F does the same but backwards; t/T forward/backward search and put the cursor to the left of the next instance of the following char on that line). X is a char not a regex; f. will find the next period.

if we use carat for cursor,

   this is a line of text
        ^

typing ft does

   this is a line of text
                     ^

whereas tt would

   this is a line of text
                    ^

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#63

Post by x0x0 » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 7:31 PM UTC

drawkbox wrote: post #9

enraged_camel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>How does a programmer evaluate this machine without discussing at least one of vi and emacs, and the absence of real Esc and Fn keys? What percentage of programmers use vi or emacs?

Use or say they use? vi and emacs are alot like some programming books people say they have read to show they are a programmer because they think that it what it means. My guess, < 10% with all the IDEs and text editors out there today. On servers or VMs they are common, in actually coding, probably overstated.

intellij has a vi mode that doesn't suck

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#64

Post by jimmaswell » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 7:31 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #52

jimmaswell wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By just getting a real laptop, yes. I can't believe how often Apple gets away with taking away core functionality like headphone jacks and vga ports, but unfortunately as long as there's an Apple logo on it then people will buy it, for an absurd markup. I wonder if the Apple Car will have no parking brake because it's not used often enough.

Actually, the Apple Car is more aggressive: they got rid of the car itself! (because they decided not to make one, actually)

It was a hypothetical.

Apparently they did actually consider making a car, which I didn't know.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#65

Post by x0x0 » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 7:32 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #55

threeseed wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a lot. If you are doing anything on remote servers it's likely to be the only text editor. But I guarantee you that 99.999% of them only know (and need to know) the basics e.g. saving file, search, find/replace etc. I would say maybe 1% of developers actually use them as an IDE given how poor they are compared to something like IntelliJ or Visual Studio.

I see vim or emacs used in just about every programmer meetup or dev on-site I visit. Every single one. And the numbers are much, much higher than 1%. If you get used to editing vim or the extreme ease of laying out windows on the fly, jumping between window configurations and saving UIs in emacs, then even IntelliJ seems quite old-fashioned. I've tried 3 times to switch to CLion by JetBrains and every time I immedia…

I'm not a hater, but emacs with vim-emulation. I've now seen everything :D

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#66

Post by falcolas » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 7:34 PM UTC

gutnor wrote: post #59

nilkn wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an okay viewpoint, but it forces the conclusion that Apple has never made a Pro machine (because the MacBook Pro lineup has never had that many options and configurations). Personally I'm fine with that conclusion, but it's not consistent with the narrative that this is the first MacBook Pro which is not for professionals.

I remember people always complaining about how the MBP was not for professionals. Lack of ports, lack of DVD reader, lack of configuration options, lack of OSX corporate feature, lack of customisability, lack of Windows, too expensive, ...

Most of those "lacks" are relatively recent evolutions of the product line. It doesn't feel like it was that long ago I had a MacBook Pro with a DVD drive, Ethernet port, and expandable memory.

It was a bit bulky, but I really miss some of those features these days.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#67

Post by hellofunk » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 7:40 PM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #65

hellofunk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see vim or emacs used in just about every programmer meetup or dev on-site I visit. Every single one. And the numbers are much, much higher than 1%. If you get used to editing vim or the extreme ease of laying out windows on the fly, jumping between window configurations and saving UIs in emacs, then even IntelliJ seems quite old-fashioned. I've tried 3 times to switch to CLion by JetBrains and every time I immedia…

I'm not a hater, but emacs with vim-emulation. I've now seen everything :D

Evil mode is its name, and it is very popular. Best of both worlds.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#68

Post by hellofunk » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 7:47 PM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #62

hellofunk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why 'fd' as a key combo is even more useful than Ctrl-[. The keys are right there on the home row buttons themselves!

but f is one of the best commands in vim (fX finds the next instance of X on that line only; F does the same but backwards; t/T forward/backward search and put the cursor to the left of the next instance of the following char on that line). X is a char not a regex; f. will find the next period. if we use carat for cursor, this is a line of text ^ typing ft does this is a line of text ^ whereas tt would this is a line…

But fd is for escaping insert mode. The commands you are talking about are not used in insert mode. That is the entire point of fd.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#69

Post by karmicthreat » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 8:07 PM UTC

raarts wrote: post #56

Totally nothing on battery life. Can OP say something about it here?

I went from a 2015 MBP13 to a 2016 MBP15 TB. It is shorter, especially if you have the brightness cranked up. If you cut the screen down to 1/3-1/2 brightness I'd say it is close. I have a pretty variable power usage though. I've also been running a couple VMs lately that have been eating power. I use chrome most of the time so that eats power as well.

All told I can probably get 5-7 hours out of it depending on the day. The need to plug it in and out frequently really makes me miss the magsafe jack. Whoever made that call should get fired.

Think there is a market for high end laptops for developers that are maybe 30% more expensive than a macbook? Looking at System76 and Dell they are all bricks. The Razer Blade Pro is probably the closest thing. Even that is huge and heavy.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#70

Post by BuckRogers » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 8:08 PM UTC

noahwilde wrote: post #4

The person who reviewed this may have been a programmer, but the review doesn't seem to be in context of programming. I care about how well I can work on it, not now well it works with remotes. > The MacBook Pro is more an evolutionary than a revolutionary upgrade over my MacBook Air. That seems to sum up this review. The macbook pro is a successor to the air, not the old macbook pro.

> That seems to sum up this review. The macbook pro is a successor to the air, not the old macbook pro.

I could see that argument for the MBP13 but not 15. You should clarify your remarks if that's what you meant because it looks like you're trolling otherwise.