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A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

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Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#11

Post by noahwilde »

an_account wrote: post #8
whorleater wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you need access to function keys (F1–F12), hold down the Function (fn) key at the bottom-left of your keyboard. Touch Bar changes to show the function buttons for you to select, and then it returns to its previous state when you release the Function key. From https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204436 .

Which is exactly how it works by default on old MacBook pros, since almost all the function keys were overwritten to control functions by default.

It appears you can't opt into it permanently? I'd be interested in finding out if you can just set it to always show function keys.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#12

Post by threeseed »

enraged_camel wrote: post #6
geophile wrote: post #2

How does a programmer evaluate this machine without discussing at least one of vi and emacs, and the absence of real Esc and Fn keys? By the way, I visited an Apple store and played with the new 15" MBP. It's even worse than I thought. I downloaded the latest Gnu Emacs, and the Fn virtual keys were not available. And in no case did I see the Esc and Fn virtual keys present at the same time. Also ridiculous is the fac…

>>How does a programmer evaluate this machine without discussing at least one of vi and emacs, and the absence of real Esc and Fn keys? What percentage of programmers use vi or emacs?

Quite a lot. If you are doing anything on remote servers it's likely to be the only text editor. But I guarantee you that 99.999% of them only know (and need to know) the basics e.g. saving file, search, find/replace etc.

I would say maybe 1% of developers actually use them as an IDE given how poor they are compared to something like IntelliJ or Visual Studio.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#15

Post by frusciante29 »

The Pro in Macbook Pro does not stand for "programmer". The device is not catering to the past. The world is not full of UNIX era programmers. Some future programmers are getting their first laptop during the coming holidays. If you think Esc then I is the future of programming tools, I don't know what to tell you.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#16

Post by smonff »

enraged_camel wrote: post #6
geophile wrote: post #2

How does a programmer evaluate this machine without discussing at least one of vi and emacs, and the absence of real Esc and Fn keys? By the way, I visited an Apple store and played with the new 15" MBP. It's even worse than I thought. I downloaded the latest Gnu Emacs, and the Fn virtual keys were not available. And in no case did I see the Esc and Fn virtual keys present at the same time. Also ridiculous is the fac…

>>How does a programmer evaluate this machine without discussing at least one of vi and emacs, and the absence of real Esc and Fn keys? What percentage of programmers use vi or emacs?

Something around 30℅ https://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#tec...

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#17

Post by rcarmo »

fergie wrote: post #13

I hadn't considered the removal of the esc key from a vi/emacs perspective. Is this something that can be lived with?

I use ctrl+C instead of Esc in vim all the time (quite useful on iPad keyboards as well) plus you can remap the Caps Lock key as stated in TFA.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#18

Post by smonff »

pjmlp wrote: post #5
geophile wrote: post #2

How does a programmer evaluate this machine without discussing at least one of vi and emacs, and the absence of real Esc and Fn keys? By the way, I visited an Apple store and played with the new 15" MBP. It's even worse than I thought. I downloaded the latest Gnu Emacs, and the Fn virtual keys were not available. And in no case did I see the Esc and Fn virtual keys present at the same time. Also ridiculous is the fac…

Not every programmer cares about vi and emacs.

Only something like 1/3

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#19

Post by zeeveener »

fergie wrote: post #13

I hadn't considered the removal of the esc key from a vi/emacs perspective. Is this something that can be lived with?

Apparently using TAB or CAPS LOCK instead of ESC is a pretty popular alternative. I haven't tried it myself, but I have heard of it.
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