Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms • Hacker News Board

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#171

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 1:10 AM UTC

snowwindwaves wrote: post #71

jliptzin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually if I were alone I would have done that just to prove a point, but I was with my SO and I didn't want to ruin his vacation as well.

Once you are denied entry in to Canada (or the us) be prepared to answer questions about it for the rest of your life every time you cross the border. Even if you decide not to enter as opposed to being denied I bet it pops up on their screen for a long time.

Even if you've done nothing "suspicious", you can get automatic screenings just for having a name that is a Soundex match to a fugitive.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#172

Post by sshanky » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 1:13 AM UTC

jliptzin wrote: post #21

Don't be fooled, Canadian border patrol proudly engages in this as well. I was recently driving across the border to Montreal on vacation when Canadian border agents, in addition to searching my car and personal belongings, demanded to see my cell phone and turn over the password. I simply asked why, since I didn't think I was doing anything suspicious, at which point the agent angrily responded "because I can and no…

On entering Canada, I've been asked to open my laptop, turn it on, enter an administrator level password, and then search for *.jpg. Everything shows up -- cached browser images as well. The agent asked a lot of questions, but I was allowed to pass eventually. This all took place out in the open, where they would normally collect a form from you.

I immediately started using TrueCrypt with the plausible deniability option, which allows you to enter an alternate password to open a completely different part of the encrypted area seeded with some random files that look realistic enough to pass scrutiny.

It was always fun to unmount the volume and remount it with the plausible deniability volume. Or, just shutting down before crossing the border and knowing that, if needed, I'd enter the alternate password.

Recently I started using a Mac and Apple's own full disk encryption, but reading this just highlights the risk. Maybe I should start using TrueCrypt again.

Ugh...it's frustrating.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#173

Post by refurb » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 1:16 AM UTC

curried_haskell wrote: post #161

empressplay wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike in the US, illegal and unadmitted entrants to Canada, the UK, Australia (and probably everywhere else) don't have constitutional protection. So while a Canadian could possibly protest, a non-Canadian really hasn't got a leg to stand on.

Um, no. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms specifically grants rights to everyone and not just Canadian citizens. Except in a few cases like mobility rights where the right is specifically restricted to citizens. A non citizen can be refused entry but they absolutely have a right to not be arbitrarily detained.

Sadly, that's not true. Read this paper titled "How the Charter Has Failed Non‐Citizens in Canada – Reviewing Thirty Years of Supreme Court of Canada Jurisprudence".

[1]http://www.fondationtrudeau.ca/sites/default/files/u5/articl...

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#174

Post by OSButler » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 1:23 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #3

I'm so embarrassed how America treats people entering the U.S. It's the first experience foreigners have in our country, and we make it one of the worst experiences in the developed world. Industries that benefit from tourism should lobby the Federal Government to improve the travel experience to, from, and within the US. I personally would fly at least a few more times a year if the TSA/CBP process treated people wi…

My first time visiting the US was by car, as we planned a road trip to visit some of the bigger cities and parks along the way. We were held for 2 hours at the first border crossing, since the agent processing our paperwork believed the address we provided for our first stop was made up: "There is no address in SF that is just the number 1, it's always in the hundreds.". We were being treated as if he had made his catch of the day and we'd be denied entry, or worse, any time now.

They had to verify the address (surprise, some streets start with the number 1, who would've thought?) and then another officer gave us the needed visa and let us into the country, all the while the original officer was glaring at us as if we somehow managed to find a loophole to gain entry into the country.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#175

Post by Joky » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 1:24 AM UTC

edblarney wrote: post #104

exolymph wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it, because it would end up being a PR storm for Canada, just like this event. I have people who would want to know where I was. I might end up waiting weeks or months, though. It's hard to be sure without knowing more about Canadian law and enforcement norms.

No, it would not be a 'PR storm'. This kind of stuff happens all day, every day, at every one of the major border crossings. You'd be denied entry and that would be the end of it. "I might end up waiting weeks or months, though." The American embassy will tell you there's nothing they can do, and you'd be waiting in perpetuity in a hotel on the American side of the border.

I think the point was that it was an answer to the jail threat...

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#176

Post by grandimass » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 1:26 AM UTC

patmcc wrote: post #162

makecheck wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always found it ridiculous that the content of devices is fair game. There is literally nothing on a phone that couldn’t be digitally downloaded after crossing the border (therefore no “threat” by bringing the phone with you). Similarly, there is no possible way to harm an airplane based on what is present on a laptop; and even if there were, you could buy in-flight WiFi and download the bits after boarding. You…

I don't think they'd ever make the argument that the content itself is dangerous - but it may give them more information about you, and let them decide that you are dangerous. At an extreme - if you had a document plan_to_takedown_flight_123ABC.pdf or diary_about_my_drug_smuggling_operation.txt, whether or not the data itself is a threat, it could indicate that you are. I mean, I think it's bullshit, the same way I t…

> if you wanted to maximize your border security... it's perfectly logical

If your threat model is that someone capable enough to take down a flight is dumb enough to keep "plan_to_takedown_flight_123ABC.pdf" on their laptop, then it's logical. Otherwise you're wasting resources and _minimizing_ your security.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#177

Post by 3131s » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 1:29 AM UTC

edblarney wrote: post #104

exolymph wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it, because it would end up being a PR storm for Canada, just like this event. I have people who would want to know where I was. I might end up waiting weeks or months, though. It's hard to be sure without knowing more about Canadian law and enforcement norms.

No, it would not be a 'PR storm'. This kind of stuff happens all day, every day, at every one of the major border crossings. You'd be denied entry and that would be the end of it. "I might end up waiting weeks or months, though." The American embassy will tell you there's nothing they can do, and you'd be waiting in perpetuity in a hotel on the American side of the border.

Exactly. This topic has come up on HN before and we've had HNers tell even more horrifying stories than today and nothing comes of it. Getting an attitude and trying to appeal to your legal rights will just embolden some of these powertripping authority figures. It's best to come prepared, either with a TrueCrypt plausible deniability type solution or just by wiping / clearing out your OS beforehand. I chose the latter option when I flew into the US, because I'd imagine even FDE might look suspicious enough to warrant getting hastled or detained.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#178

Post by branchless » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 1:33 AM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #88

branchless wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone should mod android so when you enter a second password it wipes everything but gives the appearance of a regular login.

Although then you'll probably run afoul of some jurisdictions that make it illegal to lie to the police in some circumstances (not that it necessarily needs to apply, it's the sort of thing they might throw at you to make an example and dissuade others, and quietly drop after they've caused enough mayhem in your life).

Can they know? Not most the clowns on the borders. It wouldnt brick it, just rm a directory and background shred.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#179

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 1:39 AM UTC

makecheck wrote: post #51

jliptzin wrote: post #21

Don't be fooled, Canadian border patrol proudly engages in this as well. I was recently driving across the border to Montreal on vacation when Canadian border agents, in addition to searching my car and personal belongings, demanded to see my cell phone and turn over the password. I simply asked why, since I didn't think I was doing anything suspicious, at which point the agent angrily responded "because I can and no…

I’ve always found it ridiculous that the content of devices is fair game. There is literally nothing on a phone that couldn’t be digitally downloaded after crossing the border (therefore no “threat” by bringing the phone with you). Similarly, there is no possible way to harm an airplane based on what is present on a laptop; and even if there were, you could buy in-flight WiFi and download the bits after boarding. You…

[deleted]

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#180

Post by micaksica » Sat, Dec 03, 2016, 1:40 AM UTC

tristor wrote: post #112

I work remotely and travel the world. I'm also a staunch privacy advocate. My mode for travel is to ensure any device I bring with me has a minimum of data on it, has full encryption, and is powered off before crossing any security boundary. If the device is powered off it requires a complete pass phrase to decrypt and is not susceptible to cold boot attacks. Beyond that I will adamantly refuse to turn over my passwo…

This guy gets it.

I have the laptop I'm currently working on, and then I have a specialized "travel" laptop that contains nothing. It is pretty much a basic Linux laptop that contains an unencrypted volume containing a basic workstation. We're talking netbook level of sophistication. Same goes with the phone. I have a Dual SIM device that I use when traveling, and it has no email creds or anything on it. Both devices could get cooked and I will just be out a shitty computer and phone. (I also have "China only" devices, but that's a special case.) They contain basic applications I need to use when traveling and that's all.

If I really need one of my work machines and I can't get data from it in country, I will just EMS it to my hotel before I get on the plane.

Border crossings are hostile territory. Take as little as you need for your trip, and don't take any electronic device you will feel bad forfeiting to border patrol or being compromised when it gets taken "in the back room". Assume anything you have on you will be stolen from you or used against you to get a bribe. Doesn't matter if it's North America or South America, Southeast Asia or the Middle East.