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Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

nytimes.com

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Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#161

Post by curried_haskell »

empressplay wrote: post #115
DrJokepu wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a right you have in Canada? Can't they just be like "yeah, no"?

Unlike in the US, illegal and unadmitted entrants to Canada, the UK, Australia (and probably everywhere else) don't have constitutional protection. So while a Canadian could possibly protest, a non-Canadian really hasn't got a leg to stand on.

Um, no. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms specifically grants rights to everyone and not just Canadian citizens. Except in a few cases like mobility rights where the right is specifically restricted to citizens.

A non citizen can be refused entry but they absolutely have a right to not be arbitrarily detained.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#162

Post by patmcc »

makecheck wrote: post #51
jliptzin wrote: post #21

Don't be fooled, Canadian border patrol proudly engages in this as well. I was recently driving across the border to Montreal on vacation when Canadian border agents, in addition to searching my car and personal belongings, demanded to see my cell phone and turn over the password. I simply asked why, since I didn't think I was doing anything suspicious, at which point the agent angrily responded "because I can and no…

I’ve always found it ridiculous that the content of devices is fair game. There is literally nothing on a phone that couldn’t be digitally downloaded after crossing the border (therefore no “threat” by bringing the phone with you). Similarly, there is no possible way to harm an airplane based on what is present on a laptop; and even if there were, you could buy in-flight WiFi and download the bits after boarding. You…

I don't think they'd ever make the argument that the content itself is dangerous - but it may give them more information about you, and let them decide that you are dangerous.

At an extreme - if you had a document plan_to_takedown_flight_123ABC.pdf or diary_about_my_drug_smuggling_operation.txt, whether or not the data itself is a threat, it could indicate that you are.

I mean, I think it's bullshit, the same way I think most security screening and border guard questioning is bullshit, but if you wanted to maximize your border security (and keep out, ahem, "undesirables") and don't care about people's privacy, it's perfectly logical.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#163

Post by michaelhoffman »

goodcanadian wrote: post #128
empressplay wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're under the mistaken impression that when you enter a border crossing you can turn around and go home without the permission of the country you're attempting to enter. This is not true. You've already entered the country, and so the border staff (US, Canadian, whoever) can indeed detain you, throw you into immigration detention, take all your stuff, really whatever they want. You don't have any rights. You could…

There is one exception. US immigration runs "preclearance" facilities at major Canadian airports (and a handful of other places). Here, you clear US customs and immigration before you ever board your flight. Because these facilities are still on Canadian soil, you are free to turn around and walk away at any time; they cannot detain you as they can at land borders or US airports.

Under the proposed Preclearance Bill (Bill C-23), if you are legally detained by a U.S. preclearance officer you do not have the right to withdraw anymore.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Lan...

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#164

Post by patmcc »

jliptzin wrote: post #35
chinathrow wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some risk averse people are following one rule: Do not carry any electronics at any border crossing. It's a hostile territory.

Indeed, from now on I will back up my phone to the cloud, wipe it before going over a border, then reinstalling after. It's the only sane thing to do.

Here's the thing though; you can do that, and it'll protect your data, but any nation can still prevent your entry for exactly that reason.

"Oh, you brought an empty phone? Give me access to your cloud account. No? Ok, you're never entering our country. Bye."

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#165

Post by curried_haskell »

jliptzin wrote: post #21

Don't be fooled, Canadian border patrol proudly engages in this as well. I was recently driving across the border to Montreal on vacation when Canadian border agents, in addition to searching my car and personal belongings, demanded to see my cell phone and turn over the password. I simply asked why, since I didn't think I was doing anything suspicious, at which point the agent angrily responded "because I can and no…

The worst part is they aren't looking for anything related to security, they're primarily checking that you're not going to try to work in Canada.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#166

Post by thatcat »

patmcc wrote: post #162
makecheck wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always found it ridiculous that the content of devices is fair game. There is literally nothing on a phone that couldn’t be digitally downloaded after crossing the border (therefore no “threat” by bringing the phone with you). Similarly, there is no possible way to harm an airplane based on what is present on a laptop; and even if there were, you could buy in-flight WiFi and download the bits after boarding. You…

I don't think they'd ever make the argument that the content itself is dangerous - but it may give them more information about you, and let them decide that you are dangerous. At an extreme - if you had a document plan_to_takedown_flight_123ABC.pdf or diary_about_my_drug_smuggling_operation.txt, whether or not the data itself is a threat, it could indicate that you are. I mean, I think it's bullshit, the same way I t…

I would hate to be a fiction writer crossing boarders.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#167

Post by metafunctor »

lostlogin wrote: post #145
mzw_mzw wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should journalists have more rights than ordinary civilians?

So that the rest of us can stay informed and sources can be protected. The tricky hit is regulating who is a journalist - bloggers here in NZ are running into this.

What makes you think you can trust the journalists to keep you correctly informed?

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#168

Post by refurb »

uabstraction wrote: post #124
refurb wrote: post #96

“That wall of naïveté that I had about the freedom of the press in the U.S. kind of shattered at that moment.” Freedom of the press means reporters can publish whatever they like. The CBP isn't stopping him from doing that. It certainly doesn't mean that reporters are free from searches that the average citizen has to put up with.

Woah now, the average citizen shouldn't be subject to digital cavity searches either!

First off, no cavity searches here.

Second, yes I agree the border police take things too far. However, I resent the "but you're taking away the freedom of the press" hyperbole.

Sorry, just because you're a journalist doesn't mean you get a free pass at the borders. Maybe that should be the focus of the story?

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#169

Post by refurb »

cesarbs wrote: post #132
refurb wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever travelled to Canada? I've had a much worse experience with their border police than I have with the US and I'm a Canadian!

Do you mind sharing your story?

Crossed the US/Canada border probably 30-40 times, both via plane and car. Of the 4 rough incidents I've had with border agents, 3 have been with the Canadians and 1 with the US.

I've had the Canadian border agents accuse me of trying to smuggle in a car to sell (depending on the exchange rate it can be profitable). I've also had them grill me as to why I'm coming to Canada. "Who are you meeting? What will you be doing?". I'm Canadian, you have to let me in!

On the US side, it's mostly "Welcome home!" even though I only had a green card. There was one time when a CBP officer got testy wanting to know who owned the car while my wife was driving. It was more his foul mood than anything.

Logically, you'd expect the US agents to grill me considering I'm not a citizen, not the Canadians.

That said, the US and Canadian border agents work very closely together. They share their lists of "suspects" and are more than willing to hand someone over to the other side if it makes their life easier.

Another comment said that since this happened in a Canadian airport, the guy should have just left. I'm pretty sure the US CBP would have let their Canadian colleagues know about this guy and he wouldn't have made it out of the aiport.

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