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Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

nytimes.com

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Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#71

Post by snowwindwaves »

jliptzin wrote: post #58
exolymph wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I asked what would happen if I didn't turn the password over and just went back home to the US, they told me they'd seize the device and put me in prison until they break into it. I guess it depends on how much you care about your personal info or how sensitive your data is, but I wouldn't budge based on this. I'd say, "Okay, I want to talk to the American embassy," then wait it out. Edit: To be clear, this would b…

Actually if I were alone I would have done that just to prove a point, but I was with my SO and I didn't want to ruin his vacation as well.

Once you are denied entry in to Canada (or the us) be prepared to answer questions about it for the rest of your life every time you cross the border.

Even if you decide not to enter as opposed to being denied I bet it pops up on their screen for a long time.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#72

Post by koolba »

makecheck wrote: post #51
jliptzin wrote: post #21

Don't be fooled, Canadian border patrol proudly engages in this as well. I was recently driving across the border to Montreal on vacation when Canadian border agents, in addition to searching my car and personal belongings, demanded to see my cell phone and turn over the password. I simply asked why, since I didn't think I was doing anything suspicious, at which point the agent angrily responded "because I can and no…

I’ve always found it ridiculous that the content of devices is fair game. There is literally nothing on a phone that couldn’t be digitally downloaded after crossing the border (therefore no “threat” by bringing the phone with you). Similarly, there is no possible way to harm an airplane based on what is present on a laptop; and even if there were, you could buy in-flight WiFi and download the bits after boarding. You…

> I’ve always found it ridiculous that the content of devices is fair game. There is literally nothing on a phone that couldn’t be digitally downloaded after crossing the border (therefore no “threat” by bringing the phone with you).

Not quite that it's "no threat", more like no additional threat than memorizing a long passphrase and downloading / decrypting your illegal Canadian porno on the other side.

> Similarly, there is no possible way to harm an airplane based on what is present on a laptop; and even if there were, you could buy in-flight WiFi and download the bits after boarding. You could cross the checkpoint with a blank device and in seconds have it populated with whatever you wanted to have. It’s insane.

It's not insane though. The point isn't to catch anything, it's to acclimate the populace to this type of search and seizure. Kind of like how refusing to go through the body scanners at the airport earns you "What's up with that guy?" looks from other travelers.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#73

Post by edblarney »

jb1991 wrote: post #48
jliptzin wrote: post #21

Don't be fooled, Canadian border patrol proudly engages in this as well. I was recently driving across the border to Montreal on vacation when Canadian border agents, in addition to searching my car and personal belongings, demanded to see my cell phone and turn over the password. I simply asked why, since I didn't think I was doing anything suspicious, at which point the agent angrily responded "because I can and no…

Some friends of mine were turned back at the border because they didn't make advance reservations for a hotel and therefore prove their trip really was legit.

That's sad.

Border staff often have a set of rules they have to follow, a lot of it is to ward off attempts at illegal migration.

Getting into America or Canada via that border is rather common.

When I was at the Canadian border once, a woman from Jamaica, with a carload of luggage was denied entry essentially on the same basis - no proof of return travel, reservations etc. - they essentially suspected she was trying to gain illegal status. Which is not entirely unreasonable in that case, but even then, tricky.

The rough part is how normal folks get caught up in the policies.

The one about dope is particularly pernicious - if you admit to 'having ever smoked dope' to American border agents - they can deny you entry for quite a long time. That one's a little crazy-crazy if you ask me, just a bad policy.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#74

Post by exolymph »

DrJokepu wrote: post #59
exolymph wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I asked what would happen if I didn't turn the password over and just went back home to the US, they told me they'd seize the device and put me in prison until they break into it. I guess it depends on how much you care about your personal info or how sensitive your data is, but I wouldn't budge based on this. I'd say, "Okay, I want to talk to the American embassy," then wait it out. Edit: To be clear, this would b…

Is this a right you have in Canada? Can't they just be like "yeah, no"?

Maybe. I don't know. But law enforcement routinely lie, so I default to not taking them at face value. If I had a pressing medical need or something like that, I would probably bet differently.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#75

Post by lordnacho »

jliptzin wrote: post #21

Don't be fooled, Canadian border patrol proudly engages in this as well. I was recently driving across the border to Montreal on vacation when Canadian border agents, in addition to searching my car and personal belongings, demanded to see my cell phone and turn over the password. I simply asked why, since I didn't think I was doing anything suspicious, at which point the agent angrily responded "because I can and no…

Someone's probably already thought of this:

Make a second password which "unlocks" the phone to some innocuous mode that won't hold the meatheads attention any longer.

Assuming you aren't specifically targeted.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#76

Post by schoen »

chinathrow wrote: post #36
nostromo wrote: post #3

I'm so embarrassed how America treats people entering the U.S. It's the first experience foreigners have in our country, and we make it one of the worst experiences in the developed world. Industries that benefit from tourism should lobby the Federal Government to improve the travel experience to, from, and within the US. I personally would fly at least a few more times a year if the TSA/CBP process treated people wi…

Even more depressing is the fact that many countries take the US as their idol and start also requiring all 10 finger prints at border crossing. It's an epidemic these days.

List at https://www.stallman.org/bad-border-policy-countries.html

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#77

Post by ue_ »

jliptzin wrote: post #21

Don't be fooled, Canadian border patrol proudly engages in this as well. I was recently driving across the border to Montreal on vacation when Canadian border agents, in addition to searching my car and personal belongings, demanded to see my cell phone and turn over the password. I simply asked why, since I didn't think I was doing anything suspicious, at which point the agent angrily responded "because I can and no…

I read a story on /r/hentai (yes, bear with me) who said that he was stopped at the Canadian border and they searched his laptop. In his browser image cache they found drawings of fictional characters who appeared to be under the age of 18 engaged in sexual acts. They detained him for a day (or two, I can't remember) and confiscated his laptop permanently.

Laws like this are silly, horrible, and have no place in a democracy. Even disgusting speech ought to be defended.

Canada, the UK and NZ (edit: and Australia, where someone was, I believe, jailed for having "Simpsons porn" on his computer) are places that I know have laws like this. As a citizen of one of these places, it worries me greatly, even though I am not interested in such drawings. It actually enrages me, far more than any other problem in the Western world.

Please be careful when crossing borders.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#78

Post by exolymph »

edblarney wrote: post #65
exolymph wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I asked what would happen if I didn't turn the password over and just went back home to the US, they told me they'd seize the device and put me in prison until they break into it. I guess it depends on how much you care about your personal info or how sensitive your data is, but I wouldn't budge based on this. I'd say, "Okay, I want to talk to the American embassy," then wait it out. Edit: To be clear, this would b…

" I'd say, "Okay, I want to talk to the American embassy," then wait it out." You'd be waiting forever.

I doubt it, because it would end up being a PR storm for Canada, just like this event. I have people who would want to know where I was. I might end up waiting weeks or months, though. It's hard to be sure without knowing more about Canadian law and enforcement norms.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#79

Post by toomuchtodo »

drvdevd wrote: post #61
makecheck wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always found it ridiculous that the content of devices is fair game. There is literally nothing on a phone that couldn’t be digitally downloaded after crossing the border (therefore no “threat” by bringing the phone with you). Similarly, there is no possible way to harm an airplane based on what is present on a laptop; and even if there were, you could buy in-flight WiFi and download the bits after boarding. You…

Right - and apparently this is exactly what you should do. Always travel with throwaway and/or wiped devices. Don't trust a device that's been seized and returned.

I can't upvote this enough. I'm a law abiding citizen, but I still wipe my phone and restore from iCloud after I've made my way through customs or border control.

Re: Canadian journalist's detention at US border raises press freedom alarms

#80

Post by dblohm7 »

vijayp wrote: post #56

If he actually flew out of YVR, he was probably in a us preclearance area -- us customs are located in some Canadian airports so flights can go directly into us domestic terminals. Since those screenings are on Canadian territory, us agents do not have police powers or the right to detain people. They can deny entry but people can leave at any time unless they have violated Canadian law. ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/…

I prefer going through US Preclearance in Canada due to the fact that I am still subject to Canadian law when doing so. I don't understand why this wasn't even mentioned in the article.
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