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Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

bbc.co.uk

101–110 of 139 posts

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#101
post #41

This is especially interesting, since coffee is moderately protective for Parkinson's. Does that mean the coffee may be working at the gut level rather than its caffeine working in the brain? On second thought, coffee definitely works on the gut in normal people, if you know what I mean.

I remember reading that study too but I think coffee was only shown to be significantly protective for 8-10+ cups/day.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#102
To those familiar with various skin conditions, this may not be a big surprise

Skin conditions such as seborrheic dermatitis disproportionately affect those with HIV or Parkinson's and those skin conditions themselves have been liked to gut health, although not widely received in the medical community.

Seeing as how many skin ailments are linked to those with early or long term use to antibiotics (e.g. childhood ear infections, antibiotic use as infants), and Parkinson's patients are disproportionately affected by them, this is an even greater reminder that gut flora health is something not to be taken lightly.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#103

By country. Does gut bacteria have differentiation by region/country/diet and by extension can some diets be less causative? http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/parkinson-...

A silbing comment mentions some causes such as over-cleanliness and c-section, but other more detrimental effects may be lack of breast milk in infancy and antibiotics use (particularly as a toddler/infant).

Some other supporting causes may be things like overuse of antibiotics in meat production and lack of fermented food in diet.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#104
post #44

Has anyone noticed how quickly a new research direction gets connected to all the big diseases? It has only been a few years since microbiome research really became a thing. It is disconcertingly fad-like. From pubmed: pubmed - human microbiome year count 2017 27 2016 5464 2015 5544 2014 4283 2013 2993 2012 2064 2011 1405 2010 910 2009 679 2008 520 2007 392 2006 290 2005 245 2004 160 2003 135 2002 118 2001 74 2000 78…

I don't think it's a fad, but a new causal link that's helping us understand the root cause of various ailments better.

We've found a new root cause and that's very important. What you're saying is akin to someone in the 19th century saying that the new germ theory "fad" is being applied as the root cause to various diseases/deaths.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#105

My Dad was recently diagnosed. Very early stage. This is very interesting news. My take is that Parkinson's is a little like cancer in that it likely has multiple root causes that can injure the same part of the brain (substantia niagra) and cause the disease. My research for his case led me to vitamin k2 deficiency as a possible cause / complicating factor. There are some genetic models and mouse trials that show k2…

my dad's brother has Parkinsons and it is very disheartening but I make sure to visit him and take him to lunch each time I visit relatives. He still has mobility but he also is losing his sight. The annoying part is just how frustrating to him it can be when he wants to move and his body gets "stuck". He has to tell him self to stop, stand, and then move. It works a bit, then repeats. as for it being a bacteria, aft…

>can it be related to pets? they bring along bacteria we don't handle well

wouldn't that have killed the human race long go? I think it is other way around - the much lesser exposure to pets in modern society seems to correlate with the rise of auto-immune and immune related diseases.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#106
post #102

To those familiar with various skin conditions, this may not be a big surprise Skin conditions such as seborrheic dermatitis disproportionately affect those with HIV or Parkinson's and those skin conditions themselves have been liked to gut health, although not widely received in the medical community. Seeing as how many skin ailments are linked to those with early or long term use to antibiotics (e.g. childhood ear…

So how do you go about actually fixing it? I've had that condition in a minor form for pretty much my entire life, getting worse when I was a teenager. I've gone to many derms and they all end up just giving me some form of corticosteroids.

I've tried vegan diets, various supplements, probiotics, natrual paths, salt baths, oatmeal baths and on and on, and it doesn't do much other than treat symptoms. I haven't tried to fix it any further because it's just a minor annoyance in my life, but I'm all ears if there is something that explains it better and some measurement that I can use to help understand it.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#107
post #29

There is need for research into what is happening in the gut, what the microbiome looks like and how it is influenced by food and stress. This research money can either come by government funding (ideal for basic research) or by private funding (focused, to produce top medicines). As it looks now, the private funding may not work because any remedy in the form of a medicine, would be applied a couple of times and tha…

I would like to see what folk medicine traditions from around the world thought of and how they treated the stomach. They might not have known about bacteria, but given enough time some of them might have established some cause and effect of symptoms and treatments (typically herbal). We might learn from them hints to speed up or microbiome research.

Right now, the information is very scattered and siloed, and very difficult to survey.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#108
post #31

Last year, there was an interesting story about a woman who could smell a certain odour that seemed to be given off by people with Parkinson's (primarily her husband). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34583642

"We had them wear a t-shirt for a day then retrieved the t-shirts, bagged them and coded them. "Her job was to tell us who had Parkinson's and who didn't. "Her accuracy was 11 out of 12. We were quite impressed." Dr Kunath adds: "She got the six Parkinson's but then she was adamant one of the 'control' subjects had Parkinson's.

"But he was in our control group so he didn't have Parkinson's. "According to him and according to us as well he didn't have Parkinson's. "But eight months later he informed me that he had been diagnosed with Parkinson's.

wow

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#109
post #102

To those familiar with various skin conditions, this may not be a big surprise Skin conditions such as seborrheic dermatitis disproportionately affect those with HIV or Parkinson's and those skin conditions themselves have been liked to gut health, although not widely received in the medical community. Seeing as how many skin ailments are linked to those with early or long term use to antibiotics (e.g. childhood ear…

So how do you go about actually fixing it? I've had that condition in a minor form for pretty much my entire life, getting worse when I was a teenager. I've gone to many derms and they all end up just giving me some form of corticosteroids. I've tried vegan diets, various supplements, probiotics, natrual paths, salt baths, oatmeal baths and on and on, and it doesn't do much other than treat symptoms. I haven't tried…

I would say first and foremost, avoid all uses of topical steroids and topical antifungals. And do not use antibiotics "just in case" (this is common for routine dental surgeries, but unnecessary). I do know from enough anecdotal evidence and reading published literature that those are only stopgaps and will eventually make your symptoms worse.

Unfortunately, I'm not a doctor and I don't exactly know either. All I know is that there are serious links to diseases like IBS, Crohn's, dementia, Parkinson's, seb/atopic dermatitis, etc. that many have known to be associated with gut that is being only proven in recent years.

Personally, I have reduced my intake of carbs (even "healthy" carbs) to a minimum. I eat a small serving of carbs when I'm eating other food, but never a small serving of carbs by itself. I rarely eat anything with yeast or sugar, which is a dealbreaker for most people.

I drink kefir and kombucha in small amounts and I take copious servings of probiotics. Right now I'm taking synthol and garden of life but I'll switch to a different set in a few months.

I also consume a lot of natto, kimchi (you can make this at home), and organic unfiltered apple cider vinegar.

I apply a very small amount of sea salt and water and keep it on everyday and clean my face with ACV for a few minutes each morning and evening.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#110
post #40
post #31

Last year, there was an interesting story about a woman who could smell a certain odour that seemed to be given off by people with Parkinson's (primarily her husband). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34583642

If it's ketones, then it would be easy to train a dog to detect it.

Interesting you mention this, as I've reached a similar (albeit very preliminary) conclusion while researching a medication I've been forced on top by the so-called state govt 'chief health officer'.

It has wrecked my life, and I'm fairly convinced it is causing prolonged ketoacidosis. It's also likely that it's exposing me to greatly increased risk of Parkinson's disease, which killed my grandfather and is currently in the process of killing my uncle.

But enough of that sob story. One of the theorised causes of Parkinson's and diseases in the same class is the endogenous formation of persistent prions. Prions are proteins that are 'defective' and fold abnormally.

Your body will likely destroying/metabolise prions in fairly short order; a good thing because newly synthesised proteins (mostly from amino acid metabolism) 'learn' how to fold themselves from other proteins. If they happen to learn from a "prion", one that's likely avoided being metabolised for an abnormally long time, this behaviour can spread and proteins begin to behave abnormally, in some cases forming plaques on vein and arterial structures in the body.

This is obviously bad. It's arguably worse for someone in ketosis, as their brain is burning proteins for fuel door to depleted glyco-something (sorry, the name escapes me, it's the sugar your brain uses for energy). So now some of these prions migrate to various synapses (presumably the most energy hungry ones) and behind to form plaques on these synaptic structures.

In addition, my recent (totally amateur) theory is that ketosis increases the rate of prion occurrence. In ketosis, you're metabolising unusually high levels of amino acids/proteins. So more risk of a bad or incomplete enzymatic reaction. In many cases this metabolism occurs in red blood cells, where amino acids capture, and are broken apart by, hydrogen atoms (ions?).

So now you're entire system is under more oxidative stress, you're burning proteins and synthesising new ones at a high rate, is difficult to stay hydrated due to all these hydrogen atoms going missing, and one of the byproducts of some AA hydrogenation is ultimately acetone (paint striper). Also the metabolites are highly acidic, which unbalances your plasma pH levels and further interferes with normal metabolic processes. Interestingly is not necessarily unbalanced towards 'acid', as one might expect. The reasons are still unclear to me, but I'm guessing it's something like "homeostasis gone mad".

And acetone is what dogs can be trained to detect: to try and rid your body of the excess acetone, you start respiring (exhaling) acetone, with its trademark "over ripe fruit" smell.

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