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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#501

Post by BobTheCoder »

banach wrote: post #493
BobTheCoder wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I think both are highly valuable. But I agree that it is remarkable that we appear to be putting in little effort into trying to resolve our societal issues. I think a new system is required. https://opensocialism.com is my very alpha initial version that I'm trying to iterate on. Are you interested in helping? :O

Sure, looks interesting!

Nice one :)

Generally the logic of the work is:

1. Capitalism is poor at providing value to the majority (eg. globally the top 1% have more wealth than the bottom 99%) and ensuring the long term survival of the species (eg. protecting the environment). 2. However, until there is actually a viable alternative it is a moot point. People who criticize capitalism tend to be caught up in marxism which in reality is an old, overly simplistic and unstable system. 3. Use the open source model to build a compelling alternative to capitalism which can then be promoted.

I've completed a very alpha version which details the system reasonably well but I guess the current goal is to get help, which I have found difficult.

This is the repo https://github.com/open-socialism/open-socialism.github.io which I am doing the work on. I am on an associated gitter channel.

I am also doing work on another site to help convince people of the problem that I explain here https://github.com/open-socialism/open-socialism.github.io/i... (will put into github soon)

https://opensocialism.com/open-socialism/ is a reasonable overview of the main points of the system.

Uh, anyway.. Any help is welcome in the form of feedback, github issues, PRs or whatever. No pressure :)

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#502

Post by pdonis »

saalweachter wrote: post #445
ryhamz wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not saying the public transit solutions are implemented yet. For that to happen, people would need to re-allocate their funds from buying expensive private cars to a new public transit system.

That's only half the problem; you also need to reallocate housing from the diffuse suburban homes suitable for car-life to the concentrated cores of housing around the local stops in your mass transit system. Which is not to say it shouldn't be done, but bootstrapping a mass transit system is a long, slow process that involves throwing away a lot more than our existing cars & highways.

> you also need to reallocate housing from the diffuse suburban homes suitable for car-life to the concentrated cores of housing around the local stops in your mass transit system

What if a significant fraction of the population doesn't want to live in such a concentrated environment?

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#503

Post by mirekrusin »

ekianjo wrote: post #20
mirekrusin wrote: post #13

Does the colony really need to be on the planet? Why not start on the orbit? We already do it to some extent, can't we try to grow it? Is the spinning disk ok for artificial gravity or the diameter would have to be extremely large? Another alternative could be floating, suspended or at the bottom of the ocean colony. It's like doing test driven development.

radiation exposure becomes an issue on the longer term in space.

it says that 2 meters of water blocks half of radiation. Is a design of "swimming pool on the side of the Sun" possible?

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#504

Post by bigtunacan »

GFischer wrote: post #480
bigtunacan wrote: post #221

We struggle to get people to move to Iowa because of the cold winters. The record low of all time is -47F, but the average low for January (our coldest month) is around 11F. I don't see people signing up like crazy to move to Titan where they are trapped in doors all year round. I don't mean this as a joke either; considering mental issues like SADD and just general anxiety that many people suffer when trapped indoor…

People don't move to Iowa because it's Iowa. Compare to the northern European countries (Norway, Sweden, Finland), which have to hold back immigration, and have much harsher climate (Des Moines is much warmer than Oslo, for example). If economic conditions in Titan were similar to Norway, you wouldn't have a shortfall of migrants. Maybe U.S. citizens don't want to go there, but there's a significant percentage of the…

You open with, "People don't move to Iowa because it's Iowa.", but then you say, "If economic conditions in Titan were similar to Norway, you wouldn't have a shortfall of migrants."

As far as the US economy goes, Iowa is a great place to live. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation coupled with an extremely low cost of living relative to most areas in the US. Despite these great economic conditions we don't have a huge influx of people migrating to Iowa.

As far as Norway goes; Norway has a fairly unique economic situation to the rest of the world due to their welfare system that is enabled by the profits coming from the vast amount of natural resources they are able to export.

Considering the huge cost and resources that would be associated with colonizing a planet I don't see how they would have an economy that bears in resemblance to that of Norway for any foreseeable amount of time after colonization.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#505

Post by kirykl »

logfromblammo wrote: post #473
kirykl wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I'm advocating this as viable but you could just ban the raising of livestock, and have a DEA type agency that infiltrates illegal animal farming operations

So your solution is to encourage rebellions? I consider the pursuit of nutritional sufficiency to be an inalienable human right. Attacking my ability to produce my own food, in whatever form I find desirable or convenient, is a sure way to undermine my consent to be governed.

Said I'm not advocating it. Just stating it as thought experiment.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#506

Post by grkvlt »

photogrammetry wrote: post #205
grkvlt wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic, sorry; but why do you use his first name only here? Normally we would refer to minor public figures like him as 'Elon Musk' or just 'Musk'. Using someone's first name is reserved for personal friends. I have also seen this with Linus Torvalds, for example, and Linux aficionados. It seems like there is an exception for some people, perhaps it just has to do with popularity within a segment of the population…

One's surname is omitted when it's been stated already. If they're a public figure being discussed in an academic or press setting, yes, usually the last name is used. In less formal circumstances, it's perfectly acceptable to use first names only, especially when they're as uncommon as his. The sort of proper-name forcing that you suggest is better gets really obnoxious in interviews when the interviewer continually…

Sure, that's why you use the surname instead. In interviews I can see the need for informality, so first names are fine there, but when commenting on an interview or story I think it's better to return to the formal, surname only, references.

> So, Elon, what do you think of Blue Origin's colour scheme?

>> I think Musk's response to the interviewer's stupid question about colours was interesting.

>>> I like Muskrats.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#507

Post by GFischer »

bigtunacan wrote: post #504
GFischer wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't move to Iowa because it's Iowa. Compare to the northern European countries (Norway, Sweden, Finland), which have to hold back immigration, and have much harsher climate (Des Moines is much warmer than Oslo, for example). If economic conditions in Titan were similar to Norway, you wouldn't have a shortfall of migrants. Maybe U.S. citizens don't want to go there, but there's a significant percentage of the…

You open with, "People don't move to Iowa because it's Iowa.", but then you say, "If economic conditions in Titan were similar to Norway, you wouldn't have a shortfall of migrants." As far as the US economy goes, Iowa is a great place to live. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation coupled with an extremely low cost of living relative to most areas in the US. Despite these great economic condition…

I was trying to disprove "We struggle to get people to move to Iowa because of the cold winters" , by showing a place with harsher winters and a lot more migrants.

Maybe Canada is a much better example. People don't go to Iowa because of immigration policies, not because of the weather.

If Iowa had a policy similar to Quebec's, it would be flooded with migrants. Especially if it's doing as well as you say :)

I strongly doubt anyone but explorer-types will go to Titan in the extreme hypothesis that it becomes settled sometime soon, unless it becomes an Alberta or Alaska type with some very profitable natural resource.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#508

Post by Roboprog »

tracker1 wrote: post #85
Figs wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're probably right for the most part, but a few other thoughts occurred to me for energy sources not mentioned in the article: 1) Cryovulcanism is suspected to be present on Titan. Maybe it would be possible to tap into geothermal energy there? 2) Given that there's an atmosphere, we could fly balloons there. It might be possible to use high-altitude solar panels to collect energy with some sort of drone b…

I'm not sure of any generators that would be effective at colder than antarctic temps for use with hydro... I mean, most complex materials will become brittle and shatter. It's not a problem anyone I'm aware of is really trying to solve.

I think for a "titanothermal" system, you use the right density hydrocarbon as the working fluid in the "boiler", and 3-D print the components out of H2O :-)

Except water ice isn't a very good heat conductor, so the evaporator / condenser might have to be something else. Ice could be used for other parts, though.

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