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State of Startups

stateofstartups.firstround.com

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Re: State of Startups

#71

Post by user5994461 »

shanwang wrote: post #35
jdavis703 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but you (generally) get other things like universal healthcare, free or cheap university, retirement plans, no need for a car due to proper urban planning, etc. In the US you have to shell out for all these things, paying into a private 401(k) for retirement, paying back student loan debt, paying for your health insurance etc. And these are at well funded tech firms.

that's partially true, but you forget european countries usually have higher tax than US (not only income tax, but also VAT, fuel tax, etc). here in London a mid-level engineer, which I assume is the bottom half of senior software engineers, are typically paid £50-£60k/year in startups, which usually have poor pension schemes. £50k is about $60k and you already start paying for 40% tax for the top £10k of your salary…

There are the places that pay and places that don't pay. Your numbers in London suggest that you should look better and negotiate harder ;)

Re: State of Startups

#72

Post by dx034 »

discordianfish wrote: post #25
jdavis703 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but you (generally) get other things like universal healthcare, free or cheap university, retirement plans, no need for a car due to proper urban planning, etc. In the US you have to shell out for all these things, paying into a private 401(k) for retirement, paying back student loan debt, paying for your health insurance etc. And these are at well funded tech firms.

While true, that doesn't even come close to filling the gap. In Berlin "the silicon valley of Europe", as people here like to say, there are pretty much zero engineering jobs paying >$100k/year. There is some magical ceiling of around $90k/year, no matter how senior you are. This isn't only true for startups but pretty much any company. That's one of the reasons I work remote for Silicon Valley.

On the other hand, costs in SV are way higher than Berlin. Berlin has very low living costs, even compared to other European (and German) cities. With $90k/yr you probably have the same living standard as in SV with twice as much. Probably even a higher standard, with $90k/year in Germany you can afford a large appartment, eat out regularly, don't have to worry about retirement or health care.

Of course living in a cheap area and being paid the salary of the high cost area is always better. But that's not specific to Berlin.

Re: State of Startups

#73

Post by tedmiston »

codingdave wrote: post #68
tedmiston wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really depends on your definition of a "startup" vs small business, lifestyle business, etc.

I guess that is technically true, but if anyone who is NOT a VC is buying into the idea that VC backing is the only valid definition of a startup... you have drunk too much of the kool-aid.

I would say they more just look at it as an easy filter. While there will be some false negatives, you have very few to none false positives i.e., venture-backed companies that turn out to be non-startups but don't close or exit.

The example that comes to mind that breaks this is the failing startup turned dev shop in attempt to revive the startup pattern.

Re: State of Startups

#74

Post by user5994461 »

koliber wrote: post #31
briandear wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You already get healthcare with US startups.. so that isn't a "benefit" of Europe. "Proper urban planning?" Hah. In Paris you pay San Franscico housing prices or you spend over an hour on strike-prone un-air conditioned buses or trains. As far as retirement plans, pay me more and I'll invest it myself. If I make $150k per year, that's almost triple a French salary -- plenty of extra money to start my own damned retir…

Would it be fair to say that your personal valuation of the Provençal weather, the wine and the laid back feel of living in the countryside is greater than the salary difference of working in a high-paying US company?

There is no tech job in the French countryside, so basically you cannot live there.

If you have to go to Paris, it is one of the worst place for tech talent (relative to the other major EU cities). Higher costs of living, lower income, limited competition for talents.

Re: State of Startups

#75

Post by robhunter »

GrumpyNl wrote: post #69

“One of the problems with raising money is it teaches you bad habits from the start,” said Jason Fried, the co-founder of the software company Basecamp, who has written frequently on the perversions of the venture capital industry. “If you’re an entrepreneur and you have a bunch of money in the bank, you get good at spending money.” But if companies are forced to generate revenue from the beginning, “what you get rea…

I think there's a happy medium.

Getting to the point of being sustainable by building what n customers want today gives you both the (infinite) runway, as well as hopefully some insight, into what 100n customers will want tomorrow.

Re: State of Startups

#76

Post by clifanatic »

jdavis703 wrote: post #19
demonshalo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I mean is, Europe generally does not even come close to that level of pay/compensation. So I assumed that these are US based startups. I could be wrong though.

Yes but you (generally) get other things like universal healthcare, free or cheap university, retirement plans, no need for a car due to proper urban planning, etc. In the US you have to shell out for all these things, paying into a private 401(k) for retirement, paying back student loan debt, paying for your health insurance etc. And these are at well funded tech firms.

> retirement plans

if it's still there when you retire... good luck!

Re: State of Startups

#77

Post by sgustard »

tedmiston wrote: post #57
codingdave wrote: post #49

State of Venture-backed Startups. Just to be clear. It is a specific subset of the larger startup picture.

This really depends on your definition of a "startup" vs small business, lifestyle business, etc.

It's not the "startup" label that's a problem, it's that VCs breed a monoculture. There are lots of startups that don't secure funding because they don't fit the VC mindset. This is a survey of "what VCs want in their portfolios", not "what entrepreneurs choose to do", which are very different things.

Re: State of Startups

#79

Post by haliax »

benmarten wrote: post #37
jdavis703 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but you (generally) get other things like universal healthcare, free or cheap university, retirement plans, no need for a car due to proper urban planning, etc. In the US you have to shell out for all these things, paying into a private 401(k) for retirement, paying back student loan debt, paying for your health insurance etc. And these are at well funded tech firms.

That healthcare in europe or any of the social security systems are better is just left-wing propaganda. My health insurance costs me 270$/m whereas in my home country Germany I would have to pay 15.6% which is limited to 678.60€(721.61)/month in the government health insurance. There is predictions and plans that the government retirement insurance mandatory fee will increase to 23-25% in 2030(Currently ~19%). That'…

Saying that your costs are lower is meaningless unless you also state the levels of coverage you'd get from each.

Re: State of Startups

#80

Post by taneq »

brianwawok wrote: post #55
taneq wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...who by definition aren't cofounders? Maybe I'm on the wrong site. O.o

If you join BEFORE seed money, and do a bunch of work for free, you can be a cofounder. If you join AFTER seed money, and get something like a market salary, you are an engineer. The gray area is the in-between places. If you join before seed money, but only work 1 hour a week (say to help out a buddy), are you a cofounder? I would likely vote no. Or if you join AFTER seed money, but work for 75% of market rate. Or 5…

So you're saying it is a definition issue. Regardless of what work you do at a startup, you are considered a "co-founder" if you put in initial sweat equity (ie. did work for free) but an "engineer" if you only joined after the company was funded and paying wages at market rates?

As for the grey area, it seems as if common-sense should prevail but sadly that doesn't always happen so you always need a contract laying out exactly what each side gets, even for volunteer work. I seem to recall a story earlier this year (can't remember the company involved) where one of the founders' friends had helped out occasionally before they got funded, then the company got funded, ended up with a fairly large valuation, and the 'friend' reappeared and claimed that they were owed a significant share of the company.

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