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Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

bbc.co.uk

81–90 of 139 posts

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#81

My Dad was recently diagnosed. Very early stage. This is very interesting news. My take is that Parkinson's is a little like cancer in that it likely has multiple root causes that can injure the same part of the brain (substantia niagra) and cause the disease. My research for his case led me to vitamin k2 deficiency as a possible cause / complicating factor. There are some genetic models and mouse trials that show k2…

I'm very sorry about your father's diagnosis. A few years ago I came across this spoon invention which seemed to be very helpful to those that are dealing with the shaking symptoms:

http://www.gyenno.com/spoon-en

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#83
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many) That's an outrageous misrepresentation of diabetes ( all types). Diabetics process carbs exactly like everyone else. The body breaks them down and throws the sugars into the bloodstream in the perfectly normal way. The lack of insulin (generally Type 1) or the resistance to insulin present (generally Type 2), means the cells str…

I am curious. Did you really find his claim "offensive"? Or was it simply incorrect and over simplified?

Every time I hear it, it is offensive. Let me explain why.

It's often quoted in the context of a relatively young person who has died and people discussing the young and sudden death as 'well, they were diabetic, so they died because they just kept eating donuts and didn't stop when they were told'. That brings no comfort to the family and it is often completely untrue. Most diabetics do try very hard to deal with their condition responsibly but simply stopping eating carbohydrate is not really a 'cure' or answer to the condition. Some may chose to deal with it, in part, by doing this because they feel that helps them specifically. But that is not the case for everyone.

Anyone who said a cancer patient died because they brought it upon themselves would rightfully expect to be ostracized (or worse) but, for some bizarre reason, people are happy to unquestioningly accept the point for diabetes, but not cancer (another disease with complex reasons behind it).

Addressing some other comments, insulin resistance can be a natural condition due to genetic factors and occur in the absence of excessive carbohydrate consumption. It can also develop in type 1 diabetes as a reaction to the artificial insulin introduced to control the condition (GM 'human' insulins can help but sometimes switching to Bovine/Pork insulins helps - again, it's complex and not well understood). Low carbohydrate consumption may mask the condition, but the person is still insulin resistant/diabetic regardless of whether they eat carbohydrate or not. Diabetes is not cure-able (yet - there are pioneering attempts).

I know diabetics devastated with guilt that they've somehow caused their diabetes and are responsible because someone told them it is because - based on no evidence at all - they eat too much sugar.

Perpetrating this myth and forcing guilt upon diabetics is potentially psychologically damaging, especially to a group know to have a higher propensity to depression because of the condition.

My final point on the matter, some diabetics have a form which is virtually impossible to manage manually and the only avenue for treatment is to use the new insulin pump technology which can combine continuous glucose monitoring with ultra-fine insulin control (complex time slot/insulin sensitivity/carbohydrate dosage calculations) in order to control the condition. This is showing excellent results but does come with considerable costs - although these are a small fraction of the cost of amputations, blindness or organ failure which can otherwise result.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#84
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's right.

Adding to this, dementia might be a "side" effect of the medication for the muscles' rigidity. It's hard to explain but eventually there comes a time when you need to opt between not being able to move or take the medication and start having more and more frequent surreal visions. My grandfather survived a few cancer appearances but during the last surgery to remove some cancer lumps he woke up as a completely new pe…

The dementia pre-treatment was an aid to my diagnosis. Hallucinations, wild mood swings, forgetfulness, not recognizing familiar people and places, the whole nine yards, are part and parcel of the whole affair. And then you string a few "good days" together and feel like things might be sort of normal, or at least manageable, again. Then yoink!

Parkinson's kinda sucks that way: I'd say about a third of the people I know with the diagnosis re people I would have been able to point to from across the street and say, "that fellow has Parkinson's." The rest have a presentation that doesn't look much like the textbook, but we have a few things in common if you look deeply enough. Frankly, though, there's a lot of diagnosis by elimination and medication.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#85
post #8

What do we know so far? - Gut Bacteria are involved - Inflammation is involved - The brain works on glucose - The brain can also work on Ketones - Cinnamon seems to help in mice trials (and also has anti-inflammatory properties). - Could diabetes be analogous to Parkinson's? Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many); could Parkinsons be caused by people being very dopamin…

I never know what people mean by "carbs". Are they typically referring to refined foods like white bread, white rice, etc? Or are they actually talking about the macronutrient?

When it comes to the macronutrient, high-carb populations eating whole foods are among the healthiests in the world (look at the blue zones, adventists studies, okinawans, etc).

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry for upsetting you but from my research eating high sugar/carb diets (without exercise) causes insulin resistance in the majority of people. There are some groups that are more susceptible to this of course. I'm not blaming anyone or even thinking about that; I've just done a lot of research and listened to a lot of interesting studies about the gut biome, western diet, insulin resistance, weight training, H…

>Maybe I'll be proved to be wrong That day has come http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/it-true-ea...

That doesn't disprove anything I've said; it says diabetes is probably caused by eating too much which spikes blood glucose which causes diabetes. What you are saying with your pithy comment is really great but what I've said is eating sugar and processed carbs spikes blood sugar, over time it leads to resistance to the insulin your body produces. If you eat too much your body (even some fats or protein) produce an insulin spike. If you spike your insulin 20 times per day with soda you will almost certainly at some point become diabetic. You simply won't be able to eat enough fat or protein let alone veggies to do this so we are back to my original point...

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#87
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it looks like any treatment > based on this will still be > quite some way off I came away with the opposite impression. Wouldn't you just need a targetted antibiotic?

Fecal implant would be an obvious solution.

That's my bet too.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maybe I'll be proved to be wrong That day has come http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/it-true-ea...

That doesn't disprove anything I've said; it says diabetes is probably caused by eating too much which spikes blood glucose which causes diabetes. What you are saying with your pithy comment is really great but what I've said is eating sugar and processed carbs spikes blood sugar, over time it leads to resistance to the insulin your body produces. If you eat too much your body (even some fats or protein) produce an i…

> If you spike you insulin 20 times per day with diet soda

"the evidence that connects artificial sweeteners to “insulin spiking” is limited"

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/diet-s...

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't disprove anything I've said; it says diabetes is probably caused by eating too much which spikes blood glucose which causes diabetes. What you are saying with your pithy comment is really great but what I've said is eating sugar and processed carbs spikes blood sugar, over time it leads to resistance to the insulin your body produces. If you eat too much your body (even some fats or protein) produce an i…

> If you spike you insulin 20 times per day with diet soda "the evidence that connects artificial sweeteners to “insulin spiking” is limited" http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/diet-s...

Sorry I mistyped somehow (corrected) diet soda is a whole different discussion...
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