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I Dialed a Wrong Number and Stumbled into International Phone Fraud

theatlantic.com

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Re: I Dialed a Wrong Number and Stumbled into International Phone Fraud

#21

Post by toast0 »

acveilleux wrote: post #13

The "free" phone conference service work in a somewhat similar way. There's a fee charged for long distance call even in the US/Canada. The fee is low enough that most people now get free long distance. The free phone conference services are terminated at tiny little telcos that charge a much higher than normal fee for a north american long distance and the fee is split between the conference service operator and the…

There is a regulatory push in the US to end intercarrier usage billing, which should lead to the end of the blocking and may lead to the end of the free conferences (maybe not, I imagine costs are fairly low, but they'll need new revenue). It's already reduced the amount of mostly free VoIP offerings.

Re: I Dialed a Wrong Number and Stumbled into International Phone Fraud

#22

Post by notwhereyouare »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #11
wpietri wrote: post #3

Long ago I did some contract coding for a company that processed donations via credit card. To my amazement, we had to watch out for people trying to donate small amounts to the Red Cross. Why? Because people with a list of possibly-valid credit card numbers would use small donations to brand-name charities as a way of validating credit cards. It made me long for some sort of professional association that kept track…

Should that have really been your concern? If every company that processes cards has to be fraud detecting experts, then they CC system is totally broken.

we lost thousands in a couple weeks due to fraud and had to up our game in detecting fraud and now are overzellous in rejecting cards due to fraud

Re: I Dialed a Wrong Number and Stumbled into International Phone Fraud

#23

Post by razakel »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #8

Interesting to note that Phreaking is still very much alive and kicking. Most of the hackers I know gave up on Phreaking once hacking became popular in their circles. To me, there will always be something more fascinating about the telephone infrastructure.

>Interesting to note that Phreaking is still very much alive and kicking.

Any sites you'd suggest?

Re: I Dialed a Wrong Number and Stumbled into International Phone Fraud

#24

Post by a3n »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #11
wpietri wrote: post #3

Long ago I did some contract coding for a company that processed donations via credit card. To my amazement, we had to watch out for people trying to donate small amounts to the Red Cross. Why? Because people with a list of possibly-valid credit card numbers would use small donations to brand-name charities as a way of validating credit cards. It made me long for some sort of professional association that kept track…

Should that have really been your concern? If every company that processes cards has to be fraud detecting experts, then they CC system is totally broken.

As Harry Tuttle said, "We're all in it together." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlCPkmb6cuY

Which is why it pisses me off when a company deploys insecure software or hardware, claiming that network security is the customer's responsibility.

So my home network should be reasonably secure, so that it doesn't become part of a bot net. Which means that I have to, or should, become at least knowledgeable enough to know what to buy, what to do, and what not to do. Which means that my router vendor better step up and sell me something secure.

Is it the responsibility of end users to submit bug tickets? I think it is.

Is it the responsibility of end users, or the vendors receiving reports, to publish discoveries of exploits in the wild? I think it is.

Is it the responsibility of a pedestrian who notices a skateboard on the sidewalk to move it aside and upside down so no one does a splat fall? I think it is.

We're all in it together.

Re: I Dialed a Wrong Number and Stumbled into International Phone Fraud

#25

Post by mediaserf »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #8

Interesting to note that Phreaking is still very much alive and kicking. Most of the hackers I know gave up on Phreaking once hacking became popular in their circles. To me, there will always be something more fascinating about the telephone infrastructure.

This was a fun read for me for much of the same reason. Alliance teleconferencing 0-700-456-1000 may not be there anymore, but there are still some old numbers that work. Here's a loop: 513-241-1018 - you gotta find the other end :)

Re: I Dialed a Wrong Number and Stumbled into International Phone Fraud

#26

Post by a3n »

ikeboy wrote: post #15

Sounds like the solutions needs to be orders of magnitude larger fines than the amount that would be gained. If each individual user is only losing $1-3, they won't or can't fight it, and the company also won't in many cases. If the minimum payout/fine for such a scam was, say, $100 per occurrence and that was written into all the contracts, there'd be enough incentive at every stage for companies to clean up their a…

> Sounds like the solutions needs to be orders of magnitude larger fines than the amount that would be gained.

With so many frauds and crimes, corporate death sentences should be available for extreme, large or persistent cases.

Re: I Dialed a Wrong Number and Stumbled into International Phone Fraud

#28

Post by jff »

spraak wrote: post #27

I still don't understand, how do the scammers actually get paid?

The scammers in this case are apparently a small-time telco. In other cases, the scammers set up 1-900 (or equivalent) numbers and try to get their marks to call the number.

Re: I Dialed a Wrong Number and Stumbled into International Phone Fraud

#29

Post by tyingq »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #11
wpietri wrote: post #3

Long ago I did some contract coding for a company that processed donations via credit card. To my amazement, we had to watch out for people trying to donate small amounts to the Red Cross. Why? Because people with a list of possibly-valid credit card numbers would use small donations to brand-name charities as a way of validating credit cards. It made me long for some sort of professional association that kept track…

Should that have really been your concern? If every company that processes cards has to be fraud detecting experts, then they CC system is totally broken.

>If every company that processes cards has to be fraud detecting experts, then they CC system is totally broken.

That is 100% the case, at least in the US, for card-not-present (online, phone, etc) transactions.

The credit card companies have zero liability for fraud in those cases...the liability is 100% on the merchant seller. In fact, the CC companies collect a non-trivial chargeback fee, so they arguably profit from the fraud.

Predictably, since they have zero risk, they provide almost zero fraud protection for sellers. For example, if they changed the system to accept data like "shipping address vs just billing" or "ip address", they could use their aggregate view to squash A LOT of fraud.

Re: I Dialed a Wrong Number and Stumbled into International Phone Fraud

#30

Post by roymurdock »

spraak wrote: post #27

I still don't understand, how do the scammers actually get paid?

The scammers are the "last stop" telco carriers. They charge high, Cuban rates to connect someone who thinks they are calling Cuba to a cheap/free recording. They arbitrage the cost of playing a recording (0) against the cost of actually connecting the customer to a party in Cuba (non 0).

These rates are passed up the carrier chain until they reach the caller's main carrier. If international calls are covered in the caller's contract, the carrier picks up the tab. If not, the caller is charged int'l rates for simply listening to a recording.

There should be some way for the main carriers to identify and block these shady "last stop" telcos but it seems as if they have no incentive to as they are probably cheaper to partner with than reputable carriers, and the customer ultimately pays the fee in one form or another.

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