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Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

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Re: Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

#21

Post by dv_dt »

mr_blobs wrote: post #2

No, no it won't. Innovation is generally not accelerated by people that are comfortable/have all of their basic needs met. It's accelerated when you are put into a situation where you need to innovate or fail. Failure is actually the stimuli and it pushes people to succeed more than anything.

The capitalist system trusts that even after individual capitalists gain a comfortable level of wealth, greed will ensure that they will strive for more wealth and continue to invest their capital in a self-interested way to produce more wealth. Greed for better living standards will motivate people receiving basic income too.

If greed is not motivating, then should we not tax the wealthy until they too are in "jeopardy of failure" otherwise capitalism is very far from efficiently deploying the resources of the world.

Re: Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

#22

Post by throwaway4891a »

As an FYI: an average single male in Santa Clara county ( largest component of Silicon Valley) can get about USD $150/mo in cash aid and $200/mo for food (4k/yr). State/Federal Social Security for permanent disability varies $650-1000/mo ($8-12k/yr). Self-sufficiency requires at least $2.5k/mo ($30k/yr) per adult.

Re: Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

#23

Post by rogerdpack »

gumby wrote: post #15

This is why the ACA was great for startups as well -- a shame it looks like it may be dismantled. Of course while a UBI of some sort is necessary to deal with the widespread loss of jobs it is hardly sufficient. Most people want to feel useful (mostly as part of something rather than a starter of something) and addressing this need for dignity and acceptance is crucial. Else we'll have more social unrest.

Are there any numbers now showing ACA helped startups? Just wondering.

Re: Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

#24

Post by acchow »

blunte wrote: post #13

And one reason UBI is unlikely to ever really happen is that the few people at the top (who continually adapt the system to maintain their positions of dominance/wealth) exactly do not want the system to change. They especially do not want to democratize markets, lest they lose their positions. UBI would raise the little guy, freeing him or her to explore more possibilities beyond the treadmill of survival. And that…

If jobs continue disappearing due to robots and software and are not sufficiently replaced by new jobs, then we will end up with a lot of unemployed, poor people. At that point, we will either introduce some variant of UBI or we will have civil war.

Re: Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

#25

Post by acchow »

mr_blobs wrote: post #2

No, no it won't. Innovation is generally not accelerated by people that are comfortable/have all of their basic needs met. It's accelerated when you are put into a situation where you need to innovate or fail. Failure is actually the stimuli and it pushes people to succeed more than anything.

> Failure is actually the stimuli and it pushes people to succeed more than anything.

By your theory, software engineers won't go on to found successful companies, since they always a cushy programming career to fall onto.

Re: Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

#26

Post by gumby »

rogerdpack wrote: post #23
gumby wrote: post #15

This is why the ACA was great for startups as well -- a shame it looks like it may be dismantled. Of course while a UBI of some sort is necessary to deal with the widespread loss of jobs it is hardly sufficient. Most people want to feel useful (mostly as part of something rather than a starter of something) and addressing this need for dignity and acceptance is crucial. Else we'll have more social unrest.

Are there any numbers now showing ACA helped startups? Just wondering.

I don't know about numbers but it certainly made it easier for me to find startup founders and made it easier to recruit people from big companies before we were big enough to get health care on our own (you can't even write a "group" policy in CA for under five people AFAICT).

Re: Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

#27

Post by marssaxman »

gumby wrote: post #15

This is why the ACA was great for startups as well -- a shame it looks like it may be dismantled. Of course while a UBI of some sort is necessary to deal with the widespread loss of jobs it is hardly sufficient. Most people want to feel useful (mostly as part of something rather than a starter of something) and addressing this need for dignity and acceptance is crucial. Else we'll have more social unrest.

I'm curious, how do you see the ACA having helped startups?

Re: Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

#28

Post by 2noame »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #16
mr_blobs wrote: post #2

No, no it won't. Innovation is generally not accelerated by people that are comfortable/have all of their basic needs met. It's accelerated when you are put into a situation where you need to innovate or fail. Failure is actually the stimuli and it pushes people to succeed more than anything.

Oh, of course. Why didn't any economist ever think of just pointing guns at people's heads until they come up with world-changing innovations for fear of their lives?

You know what's interesting? This gun analogy of yours, Penn Jillette has a great video about it. The video is of a talk he gave at the Cato Institute, explaining why he's a libertarian. I think you'd like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fvGasiOkBY

You know what's even more interesting? Penn Jillette supports the idea of basic income. You can hear him talk about it here:

http://ronbenningtoninterviews.com/2016/08/19/penn-jillette-...

If that somehow blows your mind, maybe you should ask yourself if you're missing something that libertarians like Penn aren't missing?

Re: Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

#29

Post by 2noame »

mr_blobs wrote: post #19
kafkaesq wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failure is actually the stimuli and it pushes people to succeed more than anything. A favorite saying of comparatively wealthy (or potentially wealthy) people, where "failure" means something on the order of "not being able to retire very comfortably by 40" or "not being able to make a high salary and do what I love for a living." Rather than "getting evicted", "never having decent health insurance", "being stuck in…

Okay, I'll bite. In response to your failure comment: I meant being evicted or not having food on the table if you don't succeed. Not being able to retire by 40 is a very strange idea of 'failure'. Who thinks this way? Most businesses in the US are started with loans or personal money and failure means you can't pay the rent. It will inflate our currency. The middle class will get a pay decrease and money will not go…

If your chief concern is about rising prices, I suggest reading this one next to really get into the weeds on that one: https://medium.com/basic-income/wouldnt-unconditional-basic-...

As for comparisons with welfare, it's the strings that are the problem with welfare. Think about it. If you are receiving $12,000 in welfare and get a job earning $20,000 you are likely to have a new total of around $20,000. That's because welfare gets pulled away with paid work.

With a $12,000 UBI however, getting a job earning $20,000 would leave you with a new total of $32,000. See the difference? With UBI there is more incentive to work because it's not pulled away with work. UBI doesn't punish you for working. Welfare does.

Do you understand?

Re: Universal Basic Income Will Accelerate Innovation by Reducing Fears of Failure

#30

Post by WheelsAtLarge »

No, no, no.... Universal Basic Income will only make it easier for people to do nothing.

If money is such a saver why doesn't 100% or for that matter 50% of those considered rich have a business or at least try for one? Why doesn't every venture capital fund throw money out like it's candy? The answers is that it's both money and motivation that makes successful people and businesses. Money no matter the amount will demotivate people. If one knows that just by waking up one is guaranteed a way to stay alive then it's much easier to not do anything. It's easier to wait until the perfect idea comes to mind. We (procrastinators) all know that tomorrow is better than today. Whether we like it or not failure is not just about money. It's also about how we are view by others in society and money will not make public perception any easier.

Yes, there's a place for financial aid and such but it needs to be carefully parsed. No, not everybody needs a basic income. Basic income for all is a bad idea.

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