Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#181

Post by mdpopescu » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 5:35 PM UTC

manarth wrote: post #168

dagw wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just set up a taxi next to it for 2.5x the price? There's almost certainly a taxi next to it that only charges X, and all taxis are required to clearly post their prices in their windows. The taxi charging 3X is simply banking on the fact the enough people are operating with incomplete information and will just hop into the first taxi they see without fully understanding how the system works.

In the UK, taxi rates are regionally regulated, with local councils dictating the maximum fare (per mile, per minute waiting in traffic, etc). I thought this was fairly common (in first-world countries). As a tourist flying into Sweden, it wouldn't have occurred to me that the fare would be unregulated, and that I would need to exercise caution when choosing a licenced taxi.

So... we got so used to being coddled we can't do the smallest amount of due diligence (per a comment above, "will just hop into the first taxi they see").

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#182

Post by kalleboo » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

tacomonstrous wrote: post #84

zzleeper wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There is an econ paper that explains why (Xavier Gabaix's shrouded prices theory), but the idea is this: There are some consumers that are naive (tourists in this case) and you can exploit them (go to the airport, and wait until you get a naive guy). Now, suppose a competitor can find a way to educate consumers: you print pamphlets listing the true costs and hire someone to distribute them everywhere. Now…

But isn't this exactly the duty of an entity like, say, the municipality or the airport administration? That's one of the major roles of the state: To step in when there is no profit motive to do the 'right thing'.

But to do that you have to shoot a monkey dead and take all his bananas

(I may have just come from another, less logical subthread in this topic)

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#183

Post by alkonaut » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC

aedron wrote: post #18

shocks wrote: post #4

Stockholm is full of 'fake' taxis that take you longer routes and charge you more money. I'd much rather use Uber.

I would use any taxi company that charged me the price up front, paid through the app, calculated based on distance from source to destination and some heuristics about time-of-day, time-of-year, etc. The driver would be incentivized to get you to your destination quickly and there wouldn't be that awkward tension about whether the guy is taking the best route, driving too slow or whatever. Even if they occasionally…

Apps for hailing and pre-agreed fares exist with normal taxis in Sweden, at least for normal in-city fares. Also there is no medallion system.

Basically the things that create a market for Uber (limited taxi permits, low tech regular taxi) aren't as pronounced in Sweden as they are elsewhere.

Uber is a taxi company like any other.

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#184

Post by DasIch » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 5:49 PM UTC

taxicabjesus wrote: post #10

> Uber is currently seeking to convince Europe's top court that it is a digital service, not a transport company, in a case that could determine whether app-based startups should be exempt from strict laws meant for regular companies. Uber found a way to abide by New York State's existing regulations for a special license for drivers and commercial insurance. Everywhere else it plays make-believe - 'we're just a tech…

The end-game you propose has a problem in that they're already companies in that space. It might still make sense for Uber to enter that space, they have the brand recognition others lack. I don't really see how this will generate enough growth and profit to make their investors happy though.

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#185

Post by DasIch » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 5:51 PM UTC

maxencecornet wrote: post #39

That's insane, when you know that this is exactly the buisness model of one of France's largest, if not the largest, tech company Blablacar

Germany prohibits profit from ride-sharing already and has for a long time. It hasn't stopped BlaBlaCar, Mitfahrgelegenheit and so on.

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#186

Post by adamlett » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:10 PM UTC

wang_li wrote: post #172

robert_foss wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Swede: 1) Cheating on taxes is quite literally stealing from every other person in the country. That being said I think there is a lot of small scale cheating going, especially for small cash-driven businesses. 2) There's no hostility towards entrepreneurs as far as I've seen it, quite the opposite. However people in general do seem to realize that there is a very real tradeoff between business interests and the…

> Cheating on taxes is quite literally stealing from every other person in the country. Does Sweden use some sort of flat fee tax system -- e.g. take the total annual expenses and divide by the population and everyone pays the same amount? If not, then I'd ask whether it's stealing for a person to make less than another person and therefore pay less taxes.

Definition of stealing: Taking something you're not entitled to. People are entitled to make less money and pay fewer taxes as a result.

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#187

Post by fsloth » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:10 PM UTC

edblarney wrote: post #130

arkitaip wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are contradicting yourself and honestly I don't see the point of correcting these falsehoods but I will note that Sweden and other Scandinavian countries are doing pretty damn well internationally considering how small the populations are [1][2][3]. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnol... [2] http://smashdig.com/artikel/10-most-successful-swedish-start... [3] https://sweden.se/business…

I'm not remotely contradicting myself. Also - your 'references' are standard 'glam posts' by media outlets, they are pop culture references, not serious measures of the success of businesses. Those types of articles and the common 'country rankings' are surprisingly not particularly relevant - the later, almost always depend on the criteria chosen. For example - if you have as your 'startup criteria': A) The prevalen…

That's an odd statment. Not all startups need gigantic cash influx nor (oh god) 1000 engineers. 100 million a year businesses can operate with under 100 core developer staff (need more for other operations of course but those are generally easier to hire for).

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#188

Post by zzleeper » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

tacomonstrous wrote: post #84

zzleeper wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There is an econ paper that explains why (Xavier Gabaix's shrouded prices theory), but the idea is this: There are some consumers that are naive (tourists in this case) and you can exploit them (go to the airport, and wait until you get a naive guy). Now, suppose a competitor can find a way to educate consumers: you print pamphlets listing the true costs and hire someone to distribute them everywhere. Now…

But isn't this exactly the duty of an entity like, say, the municipality or the airport administration? That's one of the major roles of the state: To step in when there is no profit motive to do the 'right thing'.

Indeed. But I was replying to the pro-libertarian point of view, where municipalities or airport administrations play no role in the taxi industry, which sorts any problems "by itself"

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#189

Post by jackmaney » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

zzzzzzzzzman wrote: post #145

jackmaney wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be fortunate not to have any preexisting conditions or to not need any medical procedures that, without insurance, can easily cost tens of thousands of dollars.

I appreciate your response :) The real question is why are medical procedures so artificially expensive. The only thing I would really need medical insurance for is a rare emergency procedure like an appendectomy. Information online says an appendectomy can cost anywhere from $1,500 to $150,000. Why is there such a deviation? This is how insurance companies make their money. When we consider that medical insurance in…

And exactly how many people do you think have $1,500 laying around? (Hint: not many)

Re: Sweden proposes ban on ride-sharing services that make profits

#190

Post by hopfog » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:18 PM UTC

dagw wrote: post #80

hopfog wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just need an extended driver's license, an approved taxi-meter (same as how grocery stores need their scales to be approved), and the pricing plan listed clearly in the window. You're omitting the most important thing here: the actual taxi traffic permit. That's the hard part in this process.

That's the hard part in this process. Not in Sweden. There are probably hundreds of taxi companies in Sweden and starting a new one is basically no harder than starting any other company.

I'm currently going through this process and there's some bureaucracy involved:

1. You need to show that you have financial resources of 100 000 SEK for one car and 50 000 SEK for all subsequent ones you're registering for. This needs to be reviewed and attested by an auditor. https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/globalassets/global/blanke...

2. You need to be a certified traffic manager. https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/sv/vagtrafik/Yrkestrafik/G...

Nothing super complicated but it's not just getting an extended driver's license like OP says.