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Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

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Re: Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

#51

Post by ktRolster »

mehwoot wrote: post #44
ktRolster wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that Carlsen was ahead, so if enough games had been played, he eventually would have managed to convert one of those games to victory (by sheer probability). Because the number of games played was too short, the game score wasn't allowed to reflect the true strength of the players.

Yes but that's a feature of almost every sport (to varying degrees). The aim of championships are not necessarily to determine who is stronger.

I think in chess the purpose of the match is to determine who is stronger.

Re: Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

#52

Post by ktRolster »

mehwoot wrote: post #44
ktRolster wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that Carlsen was ahead, so if enough games had been played, he eventually would have managed to convert one of those games to victory (by sheer probability). Because the number of games played was too short, the game score wasn't allowed to reflect the true strength of the players.

Yes but that's a feature of almost every sport (to varying degrees). The aim of championships are not necessarily to determine who is stronger.

I think in chess the purpose of the match is to determine who is stronger.

Re: Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

#53

Post by grizzles »

A few days ago, Karjakin tried to tilt Magnus by showing up very late for the press conference as a way to be disrespectful.

Anyone know if there were there any other psych outs that happened? Historically, there have been some really interesting ones in the chess world.

Re: Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

#54

Post by chocimir »

grizzles wrote: post #53

A few days ago, Karjakin tried to tilt Magnus by showing up very late for the press conference as a way to be disrespectful. Anyone know if there were there any other psych outs that happened? Historically, there have been some really interesting ones in the chess world.

Karjakin wasn't disrespectful. He just gave a couple of short post-match interviews that Carslen intentionally skipped, went straight to the conference room and was waiting there. The post match interviews were standard up to that point in the match. Carslen decided to skip them after he lost the game.

Re: Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

#55

Post by dagw »

ktRolster wrote: post #51
mehwoot wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but that's a feature of almost every sport (to varying degrees). The aim of championships are not necessarily to determine who is stronger.

I think in chess the purpose of the match is to determine who is stronger.

If all you want to know is who is the strongest player overall, then we don't need these special championship matches, we'd just look at the overall rankings.

Being able to perform "on the day" is an integral part of every sport championship and the thing that makes them exciting.

Re: Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

#56

Post by jmharvey »

lacker wrote: post #13

The rapid games are starting to become more interesting than the full-length games. I would not be surprised if rapid chess starts to become the more popular form of top-level chess. If you're just thinking about "playing the best possible game", the computers are doing that already. If you want to see two individuals intensely competing in a mental challenge, why not speed things up so that it's actually watchable?…

I feel like the longer games (in both cricket and chess), because they're often so tactical and slow-paced as to be yawn inducing, have a greater payoff when they do suddenly turn exciting. (See the final day of this past week's New Zealand/Pakistan Test for a great example.) T20/rapid chess is exciting in the moment, but when you step away from any specific match and think of the last, say, year's worth of matches, every high-drama moment looks more or less the same.

Re: Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

#57

Post by inopinatus »

Uhhrrr wrote: post #50
tzs wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see tiebreaks first in soccer. Yasser Seirawan had an interesting suggestion. Make championship matches 13 games, not 12, with the challenger getting white 7 times and the defending champion getting white 6 times, and with the championing retaining the title in the case of a 6.5 - 6.5 tie. One nice thing about Seirawan's suggestion is that it does not involve rapid or blitz. Many people don't like the ide…

I don't like the idea of computer evaluation at all. The measure of whether one has a winning position should be winning.

I agree but here's an anecdote. Chess tournaments have been decided by a third party. I recall the story of a match in Holland between two clubs, during which someone died of a heart attack. The clocks were stopped and never resumed; whether out of respect or distress (or both) the remaining participants did not want to continue the match, so the game positions were recorded, and a GM subsequently called in by the Dutch association to evaluate the positions and decide the result.

(I suspect no violation of the FIDE laws of chess, which concern themselves primarily with the conduct and outcome of individual games and have little to say on the deciding of matches).

Note also that computer evaluations of the strength of a position do not necessarily reflect the ability of a human being to play it. Not merely due to move depth and complexity (like when Stockfish comes back with a hilarious "mate in 24"), but also time: I recall moments in Carlsen vs Karjakin where the engines judged SK to hold a positional advantage despite mere seconds remaining on the clock.

Re: Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

#58

Post by jonrei »

slm_HN wrote: post #25

The ending of the match in puzzle form on Lichess: https://en.lichess.org/training/102787

I tried some of the problems and I am obviously a terrible chess player :) Is it possible to view the correct moves without, for a bad chess player like myself, making an exhaustive search for all possible movements?

Re: Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

#59

Post by thomasahle »

conistonwater wrote: post #11

This time around there was an unusual amount of match strategy involved. In fact, what's interesting is that they always played the Spanish or the Italian, but in the one game where Karjakin wanted to (had to) win, he played the Najdorf. Peter Svidler mentioned a very interesting suggestion that the players should play the tie-breaks before the match, which should produce more interesting games (in particular, it sho…

Both of the suggestions "Champion has draw odds" and "tiebreaks before the match" means that one player can just go on the defence for the duration of the match.

The only way to get both players to attack, that I've heard, is the classic "first to 6 wins" or some other number. In that version, no side ever wants to draw.

Re: Carlsen–Karjakin World Championship

#60

Post by thomasahle »

lacker wrote: post #13

The rapid games are starting to become more interesting than the full-length games. I would not be surprised if rapid chess starts to become the more popular form of top-level chess. If you're just thinking about "playing the best possible game", the computers are doing that already. If you want to see two individuals intensely competing in a mental challenge, why not speed things up so that it's actually watchable?…

I'm not sure. The weird blunder by Karjakin in fame three was a bit anticlimactic.

I also would have liked to see Magnus find the 30 moves forcing line in game 2.

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