Vuvuzela: private messaging system that protects metadata

HappyTypist wrote: post #4

Kenji wrote: post #3

I love this! The only thing it would require in addition is if it was serverless and p2p, like torrent.

You still need a mechanism for peer discovery.

Reserve few ports and connect to random IP address until you've found a node. Works only for IPv4, though.

Re: Vuvuzela: private messaging system that protects metadata

#7

Post by mi100hael » Wed, Nov 30, 2016, 6:46 PM UTC

> To hide metadata, messages are routed through multiple servers, and each server adds noise. This makes the metadata incomprehensible, even to powerful nation-state adversaries.

I'm interested to learn more about these servers. Can anyone host one? How are they discovered/networked? Personally I'm still more inclined to stick with Ricochet.IM since it piggybacks Tor so there are already tons of servers out there.

Re: Vuvuzela: private messaging system that protects metadata

#8

Post by problems » Wed, Nov 30, 2016, 6:50 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #6

HappyTypist wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still need a mechanism for peer discovery.

Reserve few ports and connect to random IP address until you've found a node. Works only for IPv4, though.

Yikes, no... we have much better ways than that.

Typically bootstrapping a list of a few thousand nodes with top uptime is a good starting point, then using peer exchange between the nodes to find more, store them and prefer them when possible. Bittorrent DHT could also be (ab)used as a discovery mechanism.

Re: Vuvuzela: private messaging system that protects metadata

#9

Post by mtgx » Wed, Nov 30, 2016, 6:52 PM UTC

Couldn't Matrix clients adopt this as well, if only as an opt-in feature? Perhaps some clients could even use it by default, and then if such a client talks to a different client that has the feature opt-in, it would be automatically enabled for the opt-in client, too.

I imagine this would work better for Matrix due to its federated nature than it would for Signal.

The sub-2 seconds latency doesn't seem that bad, if it actually offers strong anonymity at that level. I would've thought it would be more like 15-20 seconds, which would probably be useless for all but the actively under attack targets.

Re: Vuvuzela: private messaging system that protects metadata

#10

Post by zmanian » Wed, Nov 30, 2016, 7:01 PM UTC

Vuvuzela seems great except your anonymity is guaranteed by a set of high availability and capacity servers.

Those servers need to independently operated and resistant to global compromise.

We don't really have a good template for a system like this. We have centralized HA systems and decentralized high churn systems like Bittorrent and Tor.

I've been intrigued by the observation that forthcoming "proof of stake" blockchain systems have very similar requirements in terms of availability and capacity to anonymous messaging systems. I wonder if we can use the nodes in a PoS system to bootstrap an anonymity system like Vuvuzela.