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Windows on New Macbook Pro Permanently Damages Speaker Due to Poor Drivers

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Re: Windows on New Macbook Pro Permanently Damages Speaker Due to Poor Drivers

#141

Post by teilo »

I think this is more than a Bootcamp driver issue. I don't run bootcamp, but I do run Parallels, and I know exactly what they mean by the pops. I hear them whenever I am in Windows in Parallels. I never heard them on my old MBP. Theoretically, when in a VM, they should be mitigated by the macOS audio driver. However, if I am in Parallels, I am almost always connected to external speakers, so I don't know for sure.

Parallels doesn't run the Bootcamp drivers, but perhaps the drivers are similar.

Re: Windows on New Macbook Pro Permanently Damages Speaker Due to Poor Drivers

#144

Post by coldtea »

rplst8 wrote: post #31

For the record, if the speaker is truly blown (ruined) this is a problem with the hardware - not the software. If you can't design a speaker and amplifier combination with a limiter that won't let itself self-destruct, you are an audio design failure.

Most speakers, even expensive $10,000 hi-fi ones or pro ones will get damaged in a similar way if the signal has sudden bursts, clipping etc.

Re: Windows on New Macbook Pro Permanently Damages Speaker Due to Poor Drivers

#145

Post by coldtea »

chx wrote: post #5

The damage here is much bigger than a few laptops. We have been trying to educate, encourage people to go and try everything ;) saying you can't write software damaging your hardware. This sort of bug violates that trust and IMO it's a big deal.

That's a bizarro notion, and a moot point in any case, as very few people write audio drivers, which is the software in question.

Besides, you could always write software that damages your hardware. For example you could kill your hard disk or SSD quite easily with bad file using code (just recently Spotify had a bug that could kill an SSD in a short period of time by writing TB of data), and lots of other things besides.

Re: Windows on New Macbook Pro Permanently Damages Speaker Due to Poor Drivers

#146

Post by coldtea »

hartator wrote: post #73
k-mcgrady wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "New iPhone has been the worst selling one in relative numbers since the iPhone. 1. What do you mean relative numbers? 2. Any stats to back this up, as I've seen conflicting data? Regardless, of course it's not going to be a big seller. It's the 10th(?) generation of a device everybody already owns. It's also the third year running the design hasn't changed at all (presumably as they want to make a big splash on n…

It's not really a secret unfortunately: New iPhone 7 Data Suggests Sales Slower Than iPhone 6S - http://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2016/10/03/iphone-7-s... [edit] You have actually more data here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-ipho... If you compare 2016 Q4 to 2015 Q4, iPhone sales are retracting. Same for 2016 Q3 against 2015 Q3. I don't get what the debate is. It's public data.

>If you compare 2016 Q4 to 2015 Q4, iPhone sales are retracting. Same for 2016 Q3 against 2015 Q3. I don't get what the debate is. It's public data.

The debate is that these public data don't tell much, if anything at all. Slower sales than 6S is not bad, since that had record sales anyway. Second, Xmas are not yet here. Third, there are also other news, like:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/11/28/apple-killing-it-i...

Or the news that the new MacBook Pro retina had the most orders than any MBP on its arrival.

Re: Windows on New Macbook Pro Permanently Damages Speaker Due to Poor Drivers

#147

Post by slededit »

chx wrote: post #5

The damage here is much bigger than a few laptops. We have been trying to educate, encourage people to go and try everything ;) saying you can't write software damaging your hardware. This sort of bug violates that trust and IMO it's a big deal.

Nobody has ever claimed you could write drivers without damaging hardware. When I was writing my own toy kernel there were many warnings such as:

"Probing memory-mapped PCI devices may have unpredictable results and may theoretically damage your system, so once again we discourage its use." 1

[1] http://wiki.osdev.org/Detecting_Memory_(x86)

Re: Windows on New Macbook Pro Permanently Damages Speaker Due to Poor Drivers

#148

Post by rplst8 »

coldtea wrote: post #144
rplst8 wrote: post #31

For the record, if the speaker is truly blown (ruined) this is a problem with the hardware - not the software. If you can't design a speaker and amplifier combination with a limiter that won't let itself self-destruct, you are an audio design failure.

Most speakers, even expensive $10,000 hi-fi ones or pro ones will get damaged in a similar way if the signal has sudden bursts, clipping etc.

What you say is true but hardly comparable. Those are open systems where users can mix and match speakers with different amplifiers. In closed systems there is definitely a expectation that they are a tad more idiot proof.

Re: Windows on New Macbook Pro Permanently Damages Speaker Due to Poor Drivers

#149

Post by zeroer »

dcohenp wrote: post #140
zeroer wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I change sim card (and hence phone number) frequently for international travel. WhatsApp is horrendous for this use case. It makes me re-authenticate (or something) each time, and people have a hard time finding me. Identity should not be linked to phone number.

I do this often, too. Just FYI: all you need to do is tell WhatsApp "Never mind, I'm not actually changing my number" when prompted (which should only happen once per SIM card change). That's it. You'll continue being identified to your WhatsApp contacts by your "home" phone number (not your temporary one).

I don't have a home phone number.

Re: Windows on New Macbook Pro Permanently Damages Speaker Due to Poor Drivers

#150

Post by wpietri »

baq wrote: post #137
wpietri wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. So "we'll fix it in software" is the consumer device equivalent of the entertainment industry's, "we'll fix it in post"?

Of course, it's the only option that makes economic sense in most cases.

I think it's one of those things that makes short-term economic sense but can break a key feedback loop that leads you into long-term economic danger.

It's sort of like the software industry dynamic of having a QA department. In some places, you have QA and they catch the occasional bug. The engineers take that seriously, work hard to improve, and avoid having the same kind of bug again. But in other places with QA, QA is expected to catch the bugs, so engineers just throw stuff over the wall. In places without QA at all, most engineering groups learn to self-manage quality, because when they don't they feel the pain.

In effect, QA breaks the feedback loop between making a bug and organizational pain, meaning that the upstream organization loses its incentive to get and keep its shit together. This can happen in Hollywood, too, with "fix it in post"; people get sloppy.

So my concern is that yielding to the short-term economic imperative could lead to an undisciplined hardware organization. Then you get long-term economic harm because you waste a lot of resources (and worse, lengthen your cycle time) due to having to fix a bunch of stuff in software. And that lack of discipline eventually leads to quality issues that you can't fix in post, or don't fix in post because they're too busy chasing obvious bugs to catch the subtle ones.

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