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Adobe Responds to Jobs

blogs.adobe.com

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Re: Adobe Responds to Jobs

#31

Post by j79 »

gill_bates wrote: post #12
kqueue wrote: post #8

mouse hovering will be funny on these platforms.

Always with the mouse hover. You know that the DOM/HTML(5) includes mouse hover, right? I guess the web just doesn't work.

There's a huge difference though.

With HTML/CSS/JavaScript, hover events (both the :hover and "onmouseover" event in JavaScript) are typically used for visual feedback (the :hover event being strictly presentation...)

There's a reason for this: Users can disable JavaScript.

A core fundamental of web development (graceful degradation or progressive enhancements) is the result of this. As a developer, you can't assume the "mouseover" event will be available.

Web developers write functional pages first. They then progressively enhance it with JavaScript. This is why the web does (or, theoretically) works (contrary to what you said...)

Flash, on the other hand, is different by nature. It doesn't permit users to disable mouse events (or any other events), from firing. As a Flash developer, you can write code that requires a hover event, with fair confidence that it won't hinder a visitors interaction with the site/project.

To be honest, it's what made Flash so tempting to develop for. You're given an equal playing field through the SWF player.

Unfortunately for Adobe, with Safari/Chrome/FireFox/Opera pushing web standards, HTML5/CSS3/JS are making things (quite) interesting for web developers.

Re: Adobe Responds to Jobs

#32

Post by jm4 »

ajross wrote: post #25
thought_alarm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jobs is trying to undermine the competition because he fears that he made the wrong choice. You think so? Smart-phones have been around a long time. The iPhone was announced over three years ago, yet here we are in the middle of 2010 and mobile Flash is still nowhere to be found on any mobile device. How is that not Adobe's fault? Is Adobe just not very interested in mobile Flash, or are there very serious technica…

Isn't one of the reasons that mobile flash doesn't exist today that Apple, y'know, expressly disallowed Adobe's flash-to-iPhone compiler? Isn't that the issue at hand here? If Adobe had simply failed to deliver a product, no one would care. Instead, they did deliver it (or were just about to deliver it), and Apple freaked out.

That happened when? Three weeks ago? The iPhone has been out for years. And we're still just talking about one phone. I'm not necessarily condoning Apple's action, but arguing that the lack of mobile Flash is due to the new SDK agreement rings a little hollow. Adobe has had years to deliver Flash mobile and a variety of smart phones to target, yet it runs on none.

Re: Adobe Responds to Jobs

#33

Post by kirse »

thought_alarm wrote: post #19
gill_bates wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go back through the history of Apple's (and its many, many sycophantic fans) proclamations - such as apps on the phone, push notifications, multitasking - and there is a disturbing trend of Apple (and its followeres) making moral pontifications, stamping their feet, and then quietly and shamelessly backtracking when proven wrong. Jobs is trying to undermine the competition because he fears that he made the wrong choi…

> Jobs is trying to undermine the competition because he fears that he made the wrong choice. You think so? Smart-phones have been around a long time. The iPhone was announced over three years ago, yet here we are in the middle of 2010 and mobile Flash is still nowhere to be found on any mobile device. How is that not Adobe's fault? Is Adobe just not very interested in mobile Flash, or are there very serious technica…

I have Flash on my Nokia N900... Runs smoothly and nicely, too! Directly via the default Firefox browser!

This may come as a surprise to some, but there's a whole mobile world outside of the Apple iPhone... you get far better hardware, no lock-in, and (now with Android/Maemo) a very solid UI.

Re: Adobe Responds to Jobs

#34

Post by psyklic »

rbarooah wrote: post #11

This is going to be interesting, because if they do manage to put flash and Air on a broad range of other platforms then we will see Jobs's assertion about cross platform frameworks slowing down progress be put to the test.

It already has been put to the test, in countless other situations. For example, look at video game consoles -- crossplatform libraries ensure that really high quality games can be ported to every major platform. Do they lack some features of some consoles? Yes. Regardless, are they still hella fun to play? Of course!

Re: Adobe Responds to Jobs

#35

Post by elblanco »

A good strategy might be to go ahead and make flash work on the Apple devices. Being able to demonstrate that the limitation is purely political and not technological would be helpful for people that don't understand what's going on. Plus when Apple reverses this silly nonsense, they'll be ready to roll.

Re: Adobe Responds to Jobs

#36

Post by windsurfer »

thought_alarm wrote: post #19
gill_bates wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go back through the history of Apple's (and its many, many sycophantic fans) proclamations - such as apps on the phone, push notifications, multitasking - and there is a disturbing trend of Apple (and its followeres) making moral pontifications, stamping their feet, and then quietly and shamelessly backtracking when proven wrong. Jobs is trying to undermine the competition because he fears that he made the wrong choi…

> Jobs is trying to undermine the competition because he fears that he made the wrong choice. You think so? Smart-phones have been around a long time. The iPhone was announced over three years ago, yet here we are in the middle of 2010 and mobile Flash is still nowhere to be found on any mobile device. How is that not Adobe's fault? Is Adobe just not very interested in mobile Flash, or are there very serious technica…

Just FYI: my N900 has flash and it works great. Hardware accelerated and everything.

Re: Adobe Responds to Jobs

#37

Post by mahmud »

Terretta wrote: post #27
mahmud wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple had to speak at length to explain all the mess it has created in the last few weeks, and it tried its best to make it all about Adobe. Adobe didn't need to make such grandiose statement, there was no messiah speaking here; just a humble CTO with better things to do in his day than write press releases.

> just a CTO with better things to do in his day than write press releases Like, make Flash work on a smartphone.

With Apple off their TODO list unceremoniously, you can bet Adobe's #1 priority now is Flash on every mobile platform.

Flash works on my blackberry just fine, btw.

Re: Adobe Responds to Jobs

#38

Post by starkfist »

allyt wrote: post #30
ajross wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't one of the reasons that mobile flash doesn't exist today that Apple, y'know, expressly disallowed Adobe's flash-to-iPhone compiler? Isn't that the issue at hand here? If Adobe had simply failed to deliver a product, no one would care. Instead, they did deliver it (or were just about to deliver it), and Apple freaked out.

The topic was Flash running in a mobile browser. Like Android, which Adobe originally said would ship Flash for over a year ago. I think Adobe's utter engineering incompetence is one of the obvious points everyone seems too polite to make.

To be fair, it's technologically nearly impossible. The incompetence is coming from whomever is promising it. The engineers are fucked...

Re: Adobe Responds to Jobs

#39

Post by callmeed »

"Clearly, a lot of people are passionate about both Apple and Adobe and our technologies."

Ha. I haven't met many people who are "passionate" about Adobe technologies. I don't see Flash stickers on cars or people lining up around the block to buy Photoshop CS5.

I don't think the people taking Adobe's side on this do it out of passion–they do it because they don't like how Apple is handling the situation.

Re: Adobe Responds to Jobs

#40

Post by Herring »

rafa8a wrote: post #15

You and me as consumers decide what to buy or not to buy.

When it comes to products with strong network effects, you really don't. Sometimes an inferior product (i should say platform) can take over a market simply because it was there first. You can find any number of examples of this in the tech world.
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