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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#421

Post by aminok »

banach wrote: post #256
ferbivore wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously think that any of the following global political challenges: - convince everyone on Earth to implement changes that are bad for them, like not eating animal-based foods, with only the promise of "maybe in 200 years your descendants, should your line not be extinct by then, will benefit" as compensation - reorganise every single human settlement and/or social structure on Earth to put people closer to…

>Do you seriously think that any of the following global political challenges: > > - convince everyone on Earth to implement changes that are bad for them, like not eating animal-based foods, with only the promise of "maybe in 200 years your descendants, should your line not be extinct by then, will benefit" as compensation Even if we assume that people are as self-centered as you portray them, eating meat is not nec…

The Marshall Plan was not a global wealth redistribution scheme. It was one government forcing its citizens to subsidise other countries. Not only is getting all governments to adopt this policy impractical, even id were practical it would be highly problematic because it has major human rights implications. Forcible redistribution violates people's privacy and private property rights.

Maybe the best argument for creating an off world colony is to give people somewhere to escape to from authoritarian ideologies like yours.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#422

Post by ChuckMcM »

foobarian wrote: post #401
ChuckMcM wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the water using steam reforming as I understand it, which is recovered 100% when the cell is generating power. The only consumable ends up being the methane.

Looks like a standard solid oxide cell, going by their glitzy info page [1]. The water is used in reforming the methane but it's not a source of oxygen; that comes from the air. [1] http://www.bloomenergy.com/fuel-cell/solid-oxide-fuel-cell-a...

You are correct sir. That kind of sucks then.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#423

Post by ImTalking »

I think the present research into the colonisation of other planets is too slow to ultimately help mankind. Our resource and climate problems on this planet will cause serious issues within the next 100 years.

Personally, I think we should pour all our research into the quantum world. Finally understanding the quantum world will have a tremendous impact on mankind; the quantum computers would have unimaginable power and capabilities; we may be able to harness the quantum world for unlimited clean energy with progress already being done; we could understand the wave and particle duality so that we could 'convert' ourselves to wavefunctions and travel at the speed of light rather than the paltry speeds of today; and ultimately we could eliminate our physical forms and immerse ourselves in the quantum world as wavefunctions (a la Lucy) which would then remove any physical requirements such as location, resources, etc.

I think this is more plausible and near-term than physically uprooting ourselves to another planet using incremental scientific advancements. The survival of our species may require, as Neil Armstrong said, a giant leap.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#424

Post by adrianN »

ImTalking wrote: post #423

I think the present research into the colonisation of other planets is too slow to ultimately help mankind. Our resource and climate problems on this planet will cause serious issues within the next 100 years. Personally, I think we should pour all our research into the quantum world. Finally understanding the quantum world will have a tremendous impact on mankind; the quantum computers would have unimaginable power…

Space colonization never was about changing things on Earth. We will ~never be able to send a meaningful number of people to other planets, so no environmental problems on Earth will be solved, except perhaps by proxy via improved technology.

Quantum computers are also way less cool than popsci makes them look. Unless you want to do quantum mechanical simulations or factor prime numbers, normal computers are fine.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#425

Post by ImTalking »

dimitar wrote: post #296

I appreciate that the article points out at the end: "There is no quick way to move off the Earth. We will have to solve our problems here." Solving the climate change and other ecological issues we face here is surely easier than colonizing other planetary bodies.

The problems we have on this planet are not technological issues but social issues. And social issues are much harder to solve.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#426

Post by Ftuuky »

ryhamz wrote: post #373
Neeek wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a moped. Safer than your pushie if your lacking the infrastructure, the only reason riding a bike is so dangerous anyway is the amount of cars on the road. Notice that basically all the cars on the road have 1 person and 4 empty seats every morning? You're burning all the fuel to basically move an empty car around, a 50cc moped is burning 36 times less fuel per power stroke than my corolla (ignoring combustion ef…

While I love mopeds and bought a 1980 vespa grande in college, I would not advise this. As the song goes, "mopeds are always broke, but they easy to fix". A moped WILL break down on you and be underpowered. My grande with a 70cc kit, performance variator and multiple breakdowns tops out around 41mph. If you are not interested in repairing bikes or paying for their repair (if even possible in your city), avoid mopeds.…

I have a 50cc Yamaha Aerox for 12 years and it never failed on me. I recommend a japanese scooter instead of some vintage italian moped.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#427

Post by kilotaras »

aminok wrote: post #420
banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

>If we re-distribute our wealth, population growth will subside. I don't see how redistributing wealth will reduce population growth. Natural selection ensures the population will grow and wealth redistribution will ensure it doesn't grow at a rate that's proportional to the growth in resource production. Moreover, I don't see how you can get 300 million people in the US, let alone 7 billion people on Earth, to all a…

>I don't see how redistributing wealth will reduce population growth.

Developed countries have lower population growth due to better access to sex education, contraceptives and healthcare.

If "redistributing" wealth gives big chunk of Earth population access to those three one can expect to have reduced population growth.

This is backed by studies that just giving women access to education reduces fertility as well as infant and children mortality[1]

1. http://www.prb.org/Publications/Reports/2003/EmpoweringWomen...

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#428

Post by bildung »

gilopll wrote: post #405
PerfectElement wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> convince everyone on Earth to implement changes that are bad for them, like not eating animal-based foods, with only the promise of "maybe in 200 years your descendants, should your line not be extinct by then, will benefit" as compensation There are millions of people who chose not to eat animals for different reasons (ethical, health, environmental). And this number is growing faster than ever before, as people b…

On a purely democratic basis, most humans believe meat it good for them, and will eat it when given the choice. The vegetarian movements are small, and outside religious communities, miniscule.

In absolute numbers we are talking about 500 million people[1]. A minority, yes, but hardy miniscule. And with higher percentages in the richer countries, so lack of access to meat doesn't seem to be the reason.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country#Demog...

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#429

Post by gambiting »

azernik wrote: post #325
tehchromic wrote: post #266

I find the "colonize other planets" dream of the secular/scientific community to be most like the "you'll go to heaven when you die" idea in religious paradoxy. You would think we might have experimented with teraforming uninhabitable place here on earth - the bottom of the Mariana, or Death Valley. If that was a snap, then we might contemplate Moon or Mars or Titan. But in fact we are systematically rendering our ow…

The point of colonizing other planets isn't the opening up of now-uninhabitable areas. It's creating a human society in a place that won't be affected if/when some catastrophic event alters the environment on Earth. Sure, preferable to preserve Earth's environment, but there's nothing that says we can't do both, and the work that's going into interplanetary transport isn't appreciably detracting from environmental ef…

I'd argue that a self-sufficient colony on the bottom of the ocean would be unaffected by 99% of natural disasters that can happen to this planet - maybe short of direct meteor or nuclear hit. Even in an event of nuclear war, water is absolutely amazing at blocking radiation, so a colony couple miles below the ocean surface should be completely safe. And it would give us loads of experience on how to build self-sufficient colonies in extremely difficult environments, which would eventually be useful for colonizing space.
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