Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Thoughts on Flash

apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 522 posts

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#341

Post by rfolstad »

Pot Calling Kettle Black?

I don't see steve jobs allowing us to submit HTML5 apps to the appstore? They must be written in his closed proprietary format with a goal of locking you in to using their tools (xcode). Just like adobe wants to lock you into their proprietary format (flash).

His arguments sound good though. And it would be great for adobe to add HTML5 as a target but i don't think the spec is quite ready. Does webkit on the iphone expose all the devices to implement say chatroulette?

Flash is a great tool to develop cross platform apps until the html5 spec can expose enough of the underlying os.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#342

Post by dmnd »

efsavage wrote: post #179
tptacek wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple makes Bill Gates look like Richard Stallman? Let me ask you something. How many of Microsoft's competitors are building products that compete directly with Microsoft core offerings using the source code to Internet Explorer?

How many of Microsoft's OSes have specifically forbidden that you install another web browser?

Did I miss Apple removing Opera from the App Store?

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#343

Post by barrkel »

thought_alarm wrote: post #214
tjogin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Gruber has been making these exact points. This could basically be ghost written by Gruber and we wouldn't know the difference.

Because they're obvious points to make. Apple's competitors have been clamoring to put Flash on their mobile devices because it's one more bullet point they can use in their marketing against the iPhone. Yet it's 2010 and mobile Flash is still nowhere to be found. How is that not Adobe's fault?

Don't lose sight of the issue. 3.3.1 is the issue, not "Flash on the iPhone". By reframing the argument as "Flash on the iPhone", you are succumbing to misdirection.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#344

Post by smallblacksun »

yan wrote: post #2

I wonder why Jobs felt he had to explain this situation, which (in my opinion) was fairly clear to anyone involved in technology. Perhaps the criticism was getting to him? Also, I found this to be a brilliant snipe: > If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?

Because that should be the developer's decision to make, not Apple's?

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#345

Post by barrkel »

ra88it wrote: post #339

For me there is one single data point that shines brightly through all this noise: we are well into 2010 and nobody has Flash running well on a mobile device. Not even the mobile companies that want it.

That's because that's the misdirection. 3.3.1 is the clause that's important, but it's not about running Flash on mobile devices. It's about Apple being disintermediated and losing lock-in with their developers.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#346

Post by maximilian »

wallflower wrote: post #239
Timothee wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And he did it at 9:42pm, iPhone's preferred (evening) time. ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1250125 )

I think Gruber remains independent from Apple. It would be too conspiracy theory for Gruber/Daring Fireball to be a secret PR mouthpiece for Apple. More likely Apple reaches out to him because he is by far the most influential Apple website outside of Apple (MacRumors is a distant 2nd in my opinion). They don't have to pay Gruber anything; the increased ad revenue from being a member of the elite The Deck should more…

More likely Apple reaches out to him because he is by far the most influential Apple website outside of Apple

I also think he is one of the most levelheaded apple-centric websites out there. Gruber talks a lot about premium products (not just apple) and their success in various markets -- DF is like a premium tech/apple/good taste blogzine and I imagine that his style appeals to a lot of people at Apple, whether they reach out to him or not (and "legally" or not)

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#347

Post by ra88it »

barrkel wrote: post #345
ra88it wrote: post #339

For me there is one single data point that shines brightly through all this noise: we are well into 2010 and nobody has Flash running well on a mobile device. Not even the mobile companies that want it.

That's because that's the misdirection. 3.3.1 is the clause that's important, but it's not about running Flash on mobile devices. It's about Apple being disintermediated and losing lock-in with their developers.

Are you saying that Apple vs. Flash started with 3.3.1?

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#348

Post by potatolicious »

tomlin wrote: post #331
potatolicious wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "based on miscreant use" That's being a bit generous in favor of Adobe - the majority of the Flash development sphere is practically what one would consider "miscreant use". Here's my impression of the different sorts of Flash use, based on my journeys on the web: - Videos/Audio: Easily replaced by HTML5, and better too. More readily hardware accelerated, behaves as part of the core browser instead of a hijacking a…

> That's being a bit generous in favor of Adobe - the majority of the Flash development sphere is practically what one would consider "miscreant use". The vast majority of websites in general are poor. It would be no surprise to see that the majority of Flash sites would also be poor. Both sides have exceptions, though. > Videos/Audio: Easily replaced by HTML5, and better too. More readily hardware accelerated, behav…

It's not the cheese I object to - but that the Cheese breaks the internet in fundamental ways.

Example: We just wrapped up Restaurant Week here in Seattle where a bunch of local establishments offered up prix-fixe specials for a couple of weeks. The website for this event was done up all in Flash, and made it impossible to crawl for a search engine, or even to link or bookmark a particular restaurant for later retrieval.

What did we exchange for this cheese and gimmicky design? Everything.

There's no regulating for good taste - you're right, most websites in general are poor. They, however, are still accessible - neon green text on black background with an annoying MIDI track in the background is still information that:

- you can link to

- you can bookmark

- you can copy and paste

- you can search for in-browser (doubly important if the website fails at layout, e.g. most Flash sites!)

- you can search for on Google/Bing

Those are pretty important.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#349

Post by ptomato »

smallblacksun wrote: post #329
ptomato wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think it is reasonably evil, but I'll be very surprised if, say, Apple enforces this against somebody writing software in a lisp, or all the games using Lua or Unity. But saying literally "You can't write software in Flash" makes for somewhat questionable legal language.

One of the regulatory tests for abusing market position is unevenly applying rules to lock-out certain competitors. If Apple does allow things that are technically forbidden, but ban flash, they may open themselves up to an anti-trust lawsuit.

Wouldn't this apply more if Adobe was competing with Apple? Also if Apple had a monopoly on anything?

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#350

Post by bdotdub »

ryandvm wrote: post #246

The web without Flash would be a better place, but the fact is that there isn't any viable open replacement. Yes, HTML5 can replace Flash for video. That's great and all, but it's probably the least interesting thing that Flash does. Want to use Google Analytics? Sorry. Need Flash. Want to see StreetView? Need Flash. Hulu? Need Flash. Aviary? Need Flash. Games? Need Flash. Apple's answer to everything but video is to…

You're basing a lot of this off of current implementations of these websites. Which one of these could not be done (at least a large portion of it) in HTML5? Each of these seems like there is HTML5 functionality to enable most of the functions and features of these websites.
Post reply on HN