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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#281

Post by samstave »

c22 wrote: post #245
sliken wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mars has way more sunlight (much closer to the sun and a much thinner atmosphere), which makes solar much easier. So equipment, supplies, and solar could be on the surface, and the radiation sensitive humans could be a few meters underground. As you mine for water you could dump the useless stuff on the surface and use the emptied space for living quarters. Question is why live somewhere that's tougher than the top o…

But if you're only doing it to safeguard against extinction level events why not just set up multiple contingency populations underground here on this planet? They won't have to travel as far after the event.

I think the idea is to seed the extra planets BEFORE the ELE...

If an ELE hits, few would be around to make even that short trip to the bunker.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#282

Post by mentalpiracy »

V-2 wrote: post #196
banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

Nuclear stockpiles (and MAD) arguably reduce the number and likelihood of military conflicts. If it wasn't for nuclear weapons, we would've had third world war, possibly dwarfing the second in terms of casualties and destruction similarly as the second dwarfed the first.

The rise of nuclear weapons have also certainly coincided with an overall reduction of worldwide conflicts, yes.

That said, nuclear weapon stockpiles have enshrined a certain risk that if/when these weapons are eventually used in anger, the consequences will likely be far more horrific than any previous conflict in human history.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#283

Post by lexhaynes »

blueprint wrote: post #223
Demiurge wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep alluding to some cataclysm but that's not enough to make your point count to say you have some paper in the works.

Of course. When I find people who are truthful enough to be able to pursue the line of questions that could lead them to having to abandon their existing knowledge, I can guide them to see the world by making their questions concrete enough, and then helping them to confirm them. But those people are the exception. When you observe me doing this on the internet, most people can't understand what I say, much less have…

Paranoid delusions?

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#284

Post by pilom »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #191
Shivetya wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still trying to figure out why under the moon surface isn't an open topic for these guys. From there you could go to anywhere else. Other than travel time, the risks of Titan and Mars voyages should be the same, yes? Neither one has a realistic rescue option for the stay or duration of trip

The surface of the moon is dramatically more hostile than the surface of Mars by every metric, and it's almost as hard to get to the moon as it is to get to Mars. Building a long term permanent colony on the moon would be far more difficult than doing so on Mars. As long as you can manage the travel, Mars is by far the more desirable target for colonization, both short term and long term. Elon Musk believes that his…

Can you give some examples for how the moon is more hostile? I've always thought that for both you need a pressure suit but that the temps and radiation numbers were similar? Sure it's 21 days of hot then 21 days of cold instead of 24.5 hours but that seems much easier to deal with than the communications delay and travel times?

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#285

Post by mjevans »

khedoros1 wrote: post #250
chiefofgxbxl wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add that there is poor, and inconsequential information directed at people on how to mitigate the causes of climate change. For instance, I've seen in my surroundings a disproportionate emphasis on recycling. Whatever happened to reducing and re-using? While recycling reduces our need to extract more resources, it still requires energy to transport to processing facilities and process. The real issue is not c…

My commute is 12-15 minutes by car and 55 minutes to an hour and a half by bus (assuming the buses were actually on time, which is unrealistic here). Plus either time to make and pack a lunch, or the time to walk to a fast food restaurant near work for lunch. Plus a similar commute time back. It's somewhat faster (but more dangerous) to ride a bicycle. If my goal is a fast, safe commute, I don't have a realistic opti…

This is where self-driving vehicles (with no human driver) provide a solution.

Point to point service with built in ride consolidation (targeted at clustering the start and end points).

Plus the self-driving vehicles will eliminate gawker blocks and all of the other idiocy resulting from fallible humans driving.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#286

Post by Roboprog »

sliken wrote: post #38
eganist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Frankly, if you can solve the cosmic ray problem for the journey to Titan, you also just solved it for colonizing Mars. Martian gravity is also closer to Earth's, so Mars still seems like the better fit in the immediate term.

Mars has way more sunlight (much closer to the sun and a much thinner atmosphere), which makes solar much easier. So equipment, supplies, and solar could be on the surface, and the radiation sensitive humans could be a few meters underground. As you mine for water you could dump the useless stuff on the surface and use the emptied space for living quarters. Question is why live somewhere that's tougher than the top o…

But people do live near the north pole. If the tech becomes cheap enough, a few people would live on Antarctica, as well (political boundaries and policies permitting).

If it's possible, a few people will go just about anywhere. Islands, deserts, mountains, poles...

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#287

Post by bonzini »

acchow wrote: post #251
paulryanrogers wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If humans cannot live sustainably on Earth then what hope is there of existing in any form elsewhere?

Well, if the Earth really gets that bad (e.g. the entire surface is all water, no land; or extremely destructive weather events; or too dark because sunlight can't reach our surface), it might actually be easier to set up self-contained (bubble) cities on another planet than on earth itself. But if you're talking about terraforming, then if we could terraform another planet we could probably re-terraform earth itself…

Even if all glaciers on Earth melted and went into the ocean, sea level would "only" grow by about 65 meters.

The issue with climate change is that higher temperature means more energy and thus more extreme climate. Plus there's desertification but that is, to some extent, a different issue.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#288

Post by vacri »

sliken wrote: post #38
eganist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Frankly, if you can solve the cosmic ray problem for the journey to Titan, you also just solved it for colonizing Mars. Martian gravity is also closer to Earth's, so Mars still seems like the better fit in the immediate term.

Mars has way more sunlight (much closer to the sun and a much thinner atmosphere), which makes solar much easier. So equipment, supplies, and solar could be on the surface, and the radiation sensitive humans could be a few meters underground. As you mine for water you could dump the useless stuff on the surface and use the emptied space for living quarters. Question is why live somewhere that's tougher than the top o…

Faced with the reality of living in a mine for the rest of their lives, no-one who is keen on colonising Mars would actually then sign up for it. Who would agree to basically imprison themselves on the off-chance of being the seed of a new humanity if the earth is made uninhabitable (an already unlikely proposition)?

Humans live in a ridiculous variety of environments as it is - an extinction event would have to be utterly catastrophic to wipe out all breeding populations.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#289

Post by bitL »

ambicapter wrote: post #183
bitL wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because you need to perform physically demanding tasks on the Mars surface, which is a bit difficult with severely damaged bones. If you are on ISS, after 6 months you get to be pampered upon landing and the doctors try to ramp your bones back up for some period of time, limiting your physical stress and minimizing risk of e.g. a fatal broken hip injury.

Performing physically demanding tasks on earth will strengthen your bones, why not on Mars?

I think this popular article explains it well:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/sc-effects-o...

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#290

Post by vacri »

samstave wrote: post #281
c22 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you're only doing it to safeguard against extinction level events why not just set up multiple contingency populations underground here on this planet? They won't have to travel as far after the event.

I think the idea is to seed the extra planets BEFORE the ELE... If an ELE hits, few would be around to make even that short trip to the bunker.

What kind of event is in your mind that gives people less than, say, an hour's notice?
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