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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#241

Post by blueprint »

maxerickson wrote: post #238
blueprint wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. The problem I'm talking about originates in the gravity field of Earth. Human activities have formed an obstruction in its circulation which according to models can lead, rather quickly, to a big explosion of energy from the core. But it's pretty tough to find people who I can converse properly with about gravity because even the majority of specialists today lack (a) the basic knowledge about how grav…

What activity is obstructing the gravity field?

Before we can have a conversation about this we have to establish how gravity is generated. If we don't, it'll be a bit of a waste of time. For the moment I can tell you that the circulation of gravity requires the ability the maintain a certain balance, and that balance has been broken.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#242

Post by blueprint »

Demiurge wrote: post #240
blueprint wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. When I find people who are truthful enough to be able to pursue the line of questions that could lead them to having to abandon their existing knowledge, I can guide them to see the world by making their questions concrete enough, and then helping them to confirm them. But those people are the exception. When you observe me doing this on the internet, most people can't understand what I say, much less have…

You're not saying anything factual, at all. You need to back up your assertions, not as someone to prove your assertion negative.

What could I do aside from showing you more equations and more examples? Can you understand them even if I tell you? While you demand that I show you proof, you don't realize the proof is right in front of your eyes, all around you, in any field or sector.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#243

Post by etangent »

babyrainbow wrote: post #213
saganus wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is more with own human nature, as usual. Terraforming another planet is an engineering problem (of course, not only an engineering problem), and in the end it's something that in theory can be accomplished as long as we "work it out". Changing the human nature however, is not trivial by any measure. It's very hard for individuals to change, and even more so for groups and even more so for societies.…

>Changing the human nature however, is not trivial by any measure... We don't have to change human nature. We just need to change human behaviour. Changing human behaviour is very easy. Just replace every Ad currently in use with an eco friendly message. Make eco damaging behaviours "uncool" and there goes our young generations eco damaging behaviours. Facebook and google can do this in an year, if they put their min…

> Make eco damaging behaviours "uncool"

As 2016 had shown, we're well past the point where it was possible for a centralized (or even moderately stratified) entity to declare certain behaviors "uncool". Changing human culture without changing human nature introduces huge arbitrage opportunities for malicious actors and demagogues and increases overall existential risk.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#244

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

banach wrote: post #174
pavelrub wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes let's stop all scientific and technological progress which isn't directly related to achieving utopia on earth, until a hypothetical point in the future that will never come. Is everything you do and find important in life directly related to improving our ecosystem and eliminating nuclear stockpiles? Do you think it's ok to be interested, for example, in web development, but not in space colonization? Maybe inst…

I think that the pursuit of knowledge is a really good way to spend your time, but I do not like when simple solutions to real problems are sidelined in favor of the latest buzzword-oriented technology fetish. In times when the president-elect has announced that he is shutting down NASA's climate change research, ostensibly to fund space exploration, I think we need to remind ourselves that any work we chose to pursu…

To play devils advocate for a minute: with or without climate change research the results are the same: non-action.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#245

Post by c22 »

sliken wrote: post #38
eganist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Frankly, if you can solve the cosmic ray problem for the journey to Titan, you also just solved it for colonizing Mars. Martian gravity is also closer to Earth's, so Mars still seems like the better fit in the immediate term.

Mars has way more sunlight (much closer to the sun and a much thinner atmosphere), which makes solar much easier. So equipment, supplies, and solar could be on the surface, and the radiation sensitive humans could be a few meters underground. As you mine for water you could dump the useless stuff on the surface and use the emptied space for living quarters. Question is why live somewhere that's tougher than the top o…

But if you're only doing it to safeguard against extinction level events why not just set up multiple contingency populations underground here on this planet? They won't have to travel as far after the event.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#246

Post by rbanffy »

w-ll wrote: post #42
ekianjo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

radiation exposure becomes an issue on the longer term in space.

If we were to invest in building a underwater 'Sealab' on the bottom of some ocean floor, say at least 100m water deep, what kind of cataclysmic event could destroy it. A few dozen of the underwater sea-colonies seams the most practical safety net for humanity that we can do today. I completely for exploring and colonizing space, but we still haven't mapped our own oceans fully. And sadly, I don't think my generation…

> what kind of cataclysmic event could destroy it.

A government with depth charges.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#247

Post by maxerickson »

blueprint wrote: post #241
maxerickson wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What activity is obstructing the gravity field?

Before we can have a conversation about this we have to establish how gravity is generated. If we don't, it'll be a bit of a waste of time. For the moment I can tell you that the circulation of gravity requires the ability the maintain a certain balance, and that balance has been broken.

Oh, I don't care about having the conversation or understanding why it is happening, I'm just curious what activity is the problem.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#248

Post by [deleted] »

Demiurge wrote: post #240
blueprint wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. When I find people who are truthful enough to be able to pursue the line of questions that could lead them to having to abandon their existing knowledge, I can guide them to see the world by making their questions concrete enough, and then helping them to confirm them. But those people are the exception. When you observe me doing this on the internet, most people can't understand what I say, much less have…

You're not saying anything factual, at all. You need to back up your assertions, not as someone to prove your assertion negative.

[deleted]

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#249

Post by banach »

incongruity wrote: post #216
banach wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the pursuit of knowledge is a really good way to spend your time, but I do not like when simple solutions to real problems are sidelined in favor of the latest buzzword-oriented technology fetish. In times when the president-elect has announced that he is shutting down NASA's climate change research, ostensibly to fund space exploration, I think we need to remind ourselves that any work we chose to pursu…

Those "solutions" are only simple in theory, not in practice. Enacting that change would actually be exponentially harder than getting humans to Titan, IMHO. One requires massive social and economic change. The other requires sending a limited number of people to another part of the solar system. We roughly know how to do the latter but the former is on decidedly a longer timescale if it achievable at all.

Do you really think that adopting a sustainable way of life is unfeasible, while establishing a self-sustaining colony on another planet is? Many of the changes I am talking about are already taking place. For example, renewables have recently become a viable alternative (http://www.sciencealert.com/india-says-the-cost-of-solar-pow...) and population growth is projected to taper off after 2050 (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98371). The only thing that can hold these solutions back is strong opposition from the beneficiaries of the current system. They will fight back, but I think that the odds are stacked against them.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#250

Post by khedoros1 »

chiefofgxbxl wrote: post #172
lossolo wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finding solution is not a problem, human nature is a problem. > stop eating animal-based foods Good luck with that. Sad true is that people don't want to change their life style. If you ask them for solution they will tell you exactly the same thing as you wrote, but most of them will not implement any of this solutions in their life. They want to eat meat, they want to consume, look at global warming, everyone know…

I would add that there is poor, and inconsequential information directed at people on how to mitigate the causes of climate change. For instance, I've seen in my surroundings a disproportionate emphasis on recycling. Whatever happened to reducing and re-using? While recycling reduces our need to extract more resources, it still requires energy to transport to processing facilities and process. The real issue is not c…

My commute is 12-15 minutes by car and 55 minutes to an hour and a half by bus (assuming the buses were actually on time, which is unrealistic here). Plus either time to make and pack a lunch, or the time to walk to a fast food restaurant near work for lunch. Plus a similar commute time back. It's somewhat faster (but more dangerous) to ride a bicycle. If my goal is a fast, safe commute, I don't have a realistic option besides a car.

It's not insurmountable (I'm sure that a better public transportation system could be implemented for more money), but almost everyone will make the same choice that I have until a more practical alternative comes along....but they won't want to pay for that alternative because they aren't using it.

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