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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#201

Post by dsjoerg »

banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

Colonizing other planets is _way_ easier than doing any of the things you listed. The hardest thing is getting people to cooperate, especially against their individual self interest, as they themselves see it.

Colonizing other planets requires getting a much smaller group of people to cooperate, and it will be in their individual self interest to do so.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#202

Post by kobeya »

eganist wrote: post #34
sgentle wrote: post #32

So, the argument is let's not go to Mars because we'd have to deal with cosmic rays. Instead, let's go to Titan, which has an atmosphere, but is ridiculously cold and rains methane. Also, we can't go there because it's nearly thirty times the distance. Plus we'd still have to deal with cosmic rays along the way. I'm not convinced.

Yup. Frankly, if you can solve the cosmic ray problem for the journey to Titan, you also just solved it for colonizing Mars. Martian gravity is also closer to Earth's, so Mars still seems like the better fit in the immediate term.

Here's how you solve the cosmic ray problem on Mars: put sandbags on the roof. Done.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#203

Post by Demiurge »

petre wrote: post #184
sporkenfang wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming a severe shortage of animal-based sustenance I could see that particular bullet point happening, maybe. As for wealth redistribution, I may be pessimistic, but how likely are you to give up 3/4 of your salary post taxation to someone you aren't related to and don't know through some kind of redistribution plan?

Not likely at all. If anyone wants wealth redistribution they are free to go to Norh Korea and live there, see how it really works. Or bootstrap an utopian underground Mars colony for that matter.

A country under severe economic blockade is hardly a fair example. You could have also mentioned Cuba :)

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#204

Post by kobeya »

bitL wrote: post #57

Alright, so currently we can't even predict how bad osteoporosis becomes after a flight to Mars (will astronauts break their hips on the first step out of landing module?), what would radiation exposure outside Earth's magnetosphere do to our bodies, yet we should hurry up to Titan. Currently even human space flight to Mars is a pipe dream, our practical knowledge constructing vehicles capable of reaching Moon and su…

> Alright, so currently we can't even predict how bad osteoporosis becomes after a flight to Mars

This is not true. We have multiple examples of astronauts and cosmonauts who have done 1 and 1.5yr stints in microgravity.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#205

Post by photogrammetry »

grkvlt wrote: post #104
JorgeGT wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon views Mars colonization not as a way to solve lack of habitation space in Earth, but as an off-premises security backup should something terrible happen on Earth.

Off topic, sorry; but why do you use his first name only here? Normally we would refer to minor public figures like him as 'Elon Musk' or just 'Musk'. Using someone's first name is reserved for personal friends. I have also seen this with Linus Torvalds, for example, and Linux aficionados. It seems like there is an exception for some people, perhaps it just has to do with popularity within a segment of the population…

One's surname is omitted when it's been stated already. If they're a public figure being discussed in an academic or press setting, yes, usually the last name is used. In less formal circumstances, it's perfectly acceptable to use first names only, especially when they're as uncommon as his.

The sort of proper-name forcing that you suggest is better gets really obnoxious in interviews when the interviewer continually addresses the interviewee by their full name.

e.g.

>So, Elon Musk, what do you think about Blue Origin's rocket design?

>That was a really great answer! Elon Musk, do you spend most of your time at Tesla or SpaceX?

>Elon Musk! Elon Musk! ... etc.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#206

Post by ajnin »

ajuc wrote: post #33
cstross wrote: post #12

They almost had me until ... On the surface, vast quantities of hydrocarbons in solid and liquid form lie ready to be used for energy. Although the atmosphere lacks oxygen, water ice just below the surface could be used to provide oxygen for breathing and to combust hydrocarbons as fuel. Riiiight. And you're going to get the power to electrolytically split that water into hydrogen and oxygen where, exactly? (Whoever…

On the other hand ambient temperature superconductors are possible there :)

That might be a way to fight the cosmic rays : deflect them with strong magnetic fields generated by large superconductive coils.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#207

Post by veli_joza »

sfifs wrote: post #77
bitL wrote: post #57

Alright, so currently we can't even predict how bad osteoporosis becomes after a flight to Mars (will astronauts break their hips on the first step out of landing module?), what would radiation exposure outside Earth's magnetosphere do to our bodies, yet we should hurry up to Titan. Currently even human space flight to Mars is a pipe dream, our practical knowledge constructing vehicles capable of reaching Moon and su…

Actually I think the big issue is expense and willingness to fund the expense. There are reasonably straightforward engineering solutions to most of the problems that have been tested for a while (gravity from teethered capsules was tested in the 60s as I recall; Radiation shielding is straightforward with sufficient quantities of water, power through naval submarine type nuclear reactors etc). The problem is these w…

As attractive as American military budget seems, why would it be in interest of USA to colonize another planet? A different nation would be formed with no more sense of attachment to USA than to rest of Earth.

Rather, evolution teaches us that we have to form next stage of complex entity before these kinds of funding can be secured. Atoms -> molecules -> amino-acides -> self replicating compounds -> multicellular organisms -> conscious organisms -> packs/schools/flocks/tribes -> nations -> ...world government seems to be the next logical step. Before this step happens, planetary exploration is crippled by lack of interest in non-scientific majority of population.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#208

Post by tbarbugli »

sgentle wrote: post #32

So, the argument is let's not go to Mars because we'd have to deal with cosmic rays. Instead, let's go to Titan, which has an atmosphere, but is ridiculously cold and rains methane. Also, we can't go there because it's nearly thirty times the distance. Plus we'd still have to deal with cosmic rays along the way. I'm not convinced.

I would imagine that shielding a ship be easier than shielding an entire colony (unless of course one accepts the underground colony approach)

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#209

Post by olegkikin »

banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

All it takes is one large-ish asteroid to wipe out everything except maybe a few lucky smaller organisms/viruses that get ejected into the open space. AFAIK, a 300-mile diameter asteroid would sterilize the planet.

That's why we should become multiplanetary species sooner, rather than later.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#210

Post by Tempest1981 »

dsjoerg wrote: post #201
banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

Colonizing other planets is _way_ easier than doing any of the things you listed. The hardest thing is getting people to cooperate, especially against their individual self interest, as they themselves see it. Colonizing other planets requires getting a much smaller group of people to cooperate, and it will be in their individual self interest to do so.

Seems related to Dunbar's number -- hard for larger groups to remain cohesive: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number
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