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Thoughts on Flash

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Re: Thoughts on Flash

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did throw up this little Tweet a couple nights ago: http://twitter.com/gruber/status/12988151829

And he did it at 9:42pm, iPhone's preferred (evening) time. ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1250125 )

Keep in mind, he lives in Philadelphia, where it was 12:42am.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#252
What he describes as the "most important reason" is also the big mistake here. If using certain libraries or cross-platform development tools truly did result in worse apps, then the market would take care of that.

He also doesn't seem to understand that such tools do not all totally hide the underlying APIs. They fall along a continuum in that respect. And in trying to ban extreme cases like Flash, Apple has also basically banned compilers.

Every programmer I've talked to about this thought it was some combination of stupid and evil (there ought to be a word for that; stevil?) to insist that apps be written only in C, C++, and Objective-C.

Surely there must be people fairly high up in Apple who realize what a crazy move it is to try to dictate to hackers what programming language they should use. It worries me that those people aren't being heard.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#253
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Supreme Court would like a word with you.

What? The legal notion of "legal personhood" and actual personhood are not comparable, not even legally, and especially not in the context of the discussion at hand.

So, to recap, legally being a person and being a person aren't, legally, the same.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#254
post #10

There is an even more expressive quote for Adobe to peruse: "Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind."

Apparently CS5's Flash development suite can export to HTML5's including canvas support: http://www.9to5mac.com/Flash-html5-canvas-35409730 So that's one less reason to support Flash itself on an emerging platform (iPhone is pretty mature, but it is still very young compared to desktop OSs - see the bounty of new features and UI changes coming to iPhone OS4).

The sad thing: CS5 Flash could also export to native iPhone apps. A native exported app would run faster, consume less power, and potentially have better integration with the underlying platform, all with exactly the same interface as an HTML5 web app... In other words, a native app exported from Flash would be better than an exported HTML5 web app in all the same ways Steve describes HTML5 video as being better than Flash video.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#255
post #127
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech folks are cynical enough without my help. Here's all the insight I can muster: non-technical people do not have an accurate mental model of how the computer works. They have a semi-accurate mental model of the steps they take to do routine things on the computer: I click this thing, then I type in this thing, then I click this thing, then the magic happens. Deviations from that routine will almost certainly caus…

What I always say to non-technical people: All the programs and data in your computer is in files and folders, even windows is just a bunch of files. You understand this and everything else is far easier to understand.

Well then, the iPad must be impenetrably difficult.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#256
Very interesting. Nothing that would make me want to buy into his vision, but then I've never been drawn to Apple's platform. It's nice to see his reasoning and product philosophy laid out so clearly. I think Apple could have saved themselves a lot of grief with mobile developers if this had come out earlier; but better late than never.

I hope that if Adobe responds, they'll do so in a similarly direct and civil manner.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None, because the source code to Internet Explorer isn't based on an LGPL library and so can be kept proprietary. Now, how many Microsoft OSes refuse to run in a virtualization environment on non-approved hardware? How many treat such execution as a license violation?

So your argument appears to be that Apple, having chosen to build the most popular (by vendor support) browser library on the market on a GPL codebase, is less open than Microsoft.

No, my argument is that your argument is misleading because it ignores the fact that Apple doesn't have a choice in keeping Webkit open. It's possible that they would want to and possible they would not want to, if they had a choice. When they originally chose KHTML to base Webkit on, in 2002, years before the first iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, iPhone OS, etc., their attitute towards being open may have been different than it is now. No one is saying Apple were less open than Microsoft in 2002; people are saying it's less open than Microsoft now, and you counteract with ignorant, invalid arguments while ignoring the evidence you're presented with. You're behaving like a troll.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#258
Still doesn't compute. It's in the responsibility of the developer to create quality software, no matter what tool he chooses. So far Apple hasn't denied apps that are low quality in general, or have they? So how does this make sense.

I know for certain there are bad native apps in the app store.

All of this has been discussed before, though. It's not news, even though it's straight from Steve Jobs.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument appears to be that Apple, having chosen to build the most popular (by vendor support) browser library on the market on a GPL codebase, is less open than Microsoft.

No, my argument is that your argument is misleading because it ignores the fact that Apple doesn't have a choice in keeping Webkit open. It's possible that they would want to and possible they would not want to, if they had a choice. When they originally chose KHTML to base Webkit on, in 2002, years before the first iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, iPhone OS, etc., their attitute towards being open may have been different t…

Apple has been a (or, THE) driving force behind Webkit for some time now. They weren't forced to start with LGPL code. They did because they were comfortable working under the GPL.

I object to the subtext here, of "Apple only does open source when they're dragged into it". No, in fact, Apple has been a vocal and active open source contributor for many years now, to a far far greater extent than Microsoft.

I started with WebKit because I think it's especially relevant to this conversation. WebKit is an important gift to all of Apple's mobile competitors. But move on from WebKit and there's still:

* LLVM/Clang

* OpenCL

* Grand Central Dispatch

* Darwin

* Quicktime Streaming

etc etc etc.

Name one bona fide open source project that Microsoft runs that any of its competitors in any market have been able to use. I'm sure there's at least one. Maybe if we go project-vs.-project, Microsoft will even come out ahead. I really doubt it, though. So for now, just one.

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