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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#141

Post by IndianAstronaut »

eganist wrote: post #34
sgentle wrote: post #32

So, the argument is let's not go to Mars because we'd have to deal with cosmic rays. Instead, let's go to Titan, which has an atmosphere, but is ridiculously cold and rains methane. Also, we can't go there because it's nearly thirty times the distance. Plus we'd still have to deal with cosmic rays along the way. I'm not convinced.

Yup. Frankly, if you can solve the cosmic ray problem for the journey to Titan, you also just solved it for colonizing Mars. Martian gravity is also closer to Earth's, so Mars still seems like the better fit in the immediate term.

A penny sized hole in a space suit on Mars could mean a quick death. The lack of an atmosphere on Mars would make it exceedingly difficult to set up a colony there.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#142

Post by bitL »

peeters wrote: post #137
bitL wrote: post #57

Alright, so currently we can't even predict how bad osteoporosis becomes after a flight to Mars (will astronauts break their hips on the first step out of landing module?), what would radiation exposure outside Earth's magnetosphere do to our bodies, yet we should hurry up to Titan. Currently even human space flight to Mars is a pipe dream, our practical knowledge constructing vehicles capable of reaching Moon and su…

Why would osteoporosis on a 1-3 month journey to Mars be worse than after a 3-6 month mission on the ISS?

I think it's because you need to perform physically demanding tasks on the Mars surface, which is a bit difficult with severely damaged bones. If you are on ISS, after 6 months you get to be pampered upon landing and the doctors try to ramp your bones back up for some period of time, limiting your physical stress and minimizing risk of e.g. a fatal broken hip injury.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#143

Post by banach »

saganus wrote: post #132
banach wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not being sarcastic. Compared to terraforming, or even colonizing a planet to the point where it becomes a serious alternative to Earth, they are utterly trivial.

I think the issue is more with own human nature, as usual. Terraforming another planet is an engineering problem (of course, not only an engineering problem), and in the end it's something that in theory can be accomplished as long as we "work it out". Changing the human nature however, is not trivial by any measure. It's very hard for individuals to change, and even more so for groups and even more so for societies.…

I don't think the issues that are putting Earth in danger are the result of some immutable, unfortunate human nature. I think they are the result of a system that could be changed as easily as it was put in place. Many of the pathologies of the modern society were consciously manufactured (c.f. "Propaganda" by Edward Bernays), and all we need to do is to realize this, and start changing things. Luckily, the young generation is far less bought into the current system, and I believe we will see a move to a saner way of life over the coming decades.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#144

Post by tarr11 »

Evolution is the obvious answer for how we move into hostile environments. Hardening the environment seems inefficient.

Seveneves is a fun book that explores this concept.

E.g., probably better to evolve a few new species who can live in orbit around the earth for a few thousand years. They'd have a better time with all these issues (radiation, resources, etc)

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#145

Post by iskander »

maxerickson wrote: post #79
iskander wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Mars has way more sunlight (much closer to the sun and a much thinner atmosphere) Mercury, Venus, Earth, then Mars. (Mars is further from the sun and gets ~60% of our sunlight)

Mars vs Titan.

Ah, sorry, misunderstood.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#146

Post by Eerie »

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #141
eganist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Frankly, if you can solve the cosmic ray problem for the journey to Titan, you also just solved it for colonizing Mars. Martian gravity is also closer to Earth's, so Mars still seems like the better fit in the immediate term.

A penny sized hole in a space suit on Mars could mean a quick death. The lack of an atmosphere on Mars would make it exceedingly difficult to set up a colony there.

>A penny sized hole in a space suit on Mars could mean a quick death.

Also true for Titan (surface temperature -179 degrees Celsius).

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#147

Post by Chathamization »

Koshkin wrote: post #135

In all likelihood, we will (continue to) be "colonizing" the virtual Universe, not the physical one. Look at all the advancements being made in VR, robotics, AI, and computer hardware. And considering that even putting a man on the Moon was - and still is - enormously difficult, I have a hard time imagining any progress being made here on any significant scale in the foreseeable future. I think it may be time to real…

Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if we get brain uploads before we get a self-sustaining Mars Colony. At which point current efforts to colonize Mars would have the same impact on spreading humans throughout the universe as the Tower of Babel did in getting us to the moon.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#148

Post by ivan_gammel »

banach wrote: post #124
ivan_gammel wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While everything you say is important whether we go to space or not, it does not save the mankind from catastrophic events originating from space, which may seem like having low probability, but still are not impossible. If there's even a tiny chance that a big enough celestial body somewhere from Oort cloud will meet Earth in next 100-500 years, it's time to go to other planets right now to be prepared.

I agree, as long as colonization is not seen as an alternative to securing our continued survival here on Earth, bar the kind of catastrophic events you mention. We should think of colonization as life insurance; societal reform as a healthy lifestyle, health insurance and pension.

Exactly. And the earlier we start paying, the more we'll get if something eventually happens. We'll need a lot of time to build as good new home as we have now, that will preserve our culture, our history and our diversity. It's hundreds of years of hard work and at some point it will not be a focused project able to achieve results quickly, but rather more like regular economic development of 2-7% per year with very slow population growth (if the Earth will be green and beautiful, who will want to give birth to their child on Mars?).

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#149

Post by IndianAstronaut »

What is really needed first is rovers on Titan that can explore the lakes, ice deposits and possible geothermal energy there.

We already know Enceladus, another of Saturn's moons, has abundant water and heating from Saturn's tidal pull.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#150

Post by [deleted] »

bitL wrote: post #57

Alright, so currently we can't even predict how bad osteoporosis becomes after a flight to Mars (will astronauts break their hips on the first step out of landing module?), what would radiation exposure outside Earth's magnetosphere do to our bodies, yet we should hurry up to Titan. Currently even human space flight to Mars is a pipe dream, our practical knowledge constructing vehicles capable of reaching Moon and su…

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