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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#91

Post by throwanem »

ape4 wrote: post #46
sgentle wrote: post #32

So, the argument is let's not go to Mars because we'd have to deal with cosmic rays. Instead, let's go to Titan, which has an atmosphere, but is ridiculously cold and rains methane. Also, we can't go there because it's nearly thirty times the distance. Plus we'd still have to deal with cosmic rays along the way. I'm not convinced.

Hopefully we can develop some light materials for radiation protection. So we can have radiation-proof domes and suits on Mars.

The trouble there is that, in order to attenuate high-energy radiation like the cosmic rays under discussion, you need something that's either extremely dense or extremely thick, and ideally both - dense so a speeding particle is more likely to hit it instead of zipping past between the atoms, thick so that Bremsstrahlung X-rays get absorbed before they reach human tissue susceptible to ionization injury.

Both of these are physical necessities, and both militate directly against the idea of a light, comfortable radiation-proof suit or dome. They're also not something that can be solved by incremental improvements in materials science - as sensible to imagine that we're just an unknown number of iterations away from main battle tank armor with the mass and density of Styrofoam, and for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#92

Post by andrewfromx »

"Housing could be made of plastic produced from the unlimited resources harvested on the surface" drill baby drill? Plastic? Like petroleum based plastic? So we humans should move from planet to planet like locusts?

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#93

Post by zyb09 »

hereonbusiness wrote: post #17

We expect human nature to stay the same. Human beings of the future will have the same drives and needs we have now. Practically speaking, their home must have abundant energy, livable temperatures and protection from the rigors of space, including cosmic radiation, which new research suggests is unavoidably dangerous for biological beings like us I would expect the complete opposite if we really want to colonize the…

Is it? We don't have any conceivable idea on how exactly human modification might work. We like to imaging how we gonna decouple bodies and consciousness, yet we can't even grow organs in a Petri dish or figure out how things like obesity are being caused. For traveling to Mars and beyond we already have some solid conventional plans, its just a matter of committing a huge amount of resources to it.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#94

Post by dreistdreist »

some1else wrote: post #83
bazzargh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to wonder if the recently discovered ice deposits on mars would do the job https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/mars-ice-deposit-holds-as-m... If this really is just a metre down and 80% water it's got to be an attractive target - relatively easy to mine (once surface is cleared, just use heat) and a hollowed out underground structure with 1m of ice above would be an effective radiation shield: http://space.stacke…

I'm wondering how contaminated are raw materials on planets without a solid magnetosphere. Could it be that most of the water out there is too radio-active for consumption?

Things get contaminated by radioactive material, not by radiation exposure [0]. And of course obligatory xkcd [1].

[0] https://www.mirion.com/introduction-to-radiation-safety/radi...

[1] https://what-if.xkcd.com/29/

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#95

Post by koheripbal »

nickparker wrote: post #90

This is exceedingly silly. Saturn's magnetosphere concentrates radiation primarily on Enceladus, Dione, and surprise surprise: Titan. The atmosphere doesn't mean much when you're under the cosmic equivalent of a magnifying glass.

If a surface temperature of −179.5 °C isn't enough to stop someone, logic never will.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#96

Post by yummybear »

koheripbal wrote: post #95
nickparker wrote: post #90

This is exceedingly silly. Saturn's magnetosphere concentrates radiation primarily on Enceladus, Dione, and surprise surprise: Titan. The atmosphere doesn't mean much when you're under the cosmic equivalent of a magnifying glass.

If a surface temperature of −179.5 °C isn't enough to stop someone, logic never will.

“There's no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing.”

So remember your mittens, people.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#99

Post by sidek »

FreeFull wrote: post #78
wowoc wrote: post #67

The article says that the water ice could be used as a source of oxygen, needed to power the combustion of hydrocarbons as fuel. But the oxygen is trapped in water molecules, wouldn't it need to be freed from the hydrogen atoms first (which requires energy)?

I have looked it up, and it seems the combustion of methane produces more energy than the combustion of hydrogen. Splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen won't be 100% efficient though, and neither will be turning heat into useful energy, so I don't know if you'll still be energy-positive in the end.

More realistic might be a long-term preparation scenario in which we send a first wave of robots to set up some solar panels and run them to store H2 and O2 for a couple of decades. We won't have gained energy necessarily, but we will have stored it in large enough amounts that early colonisation will have extra energy if it needs it.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#100

Post by grkvlt »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #51
gkafkg8y8 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main two reasons we wouldn't settle anything beyond Earth would be: 1. Lack of interest. 2. Lack of time. #1 is the biggest problem as far as we know right now. #2 is a problem only if we destroy our planet to the point where we can't expend resources or time, or we overpopulate and run out of resources, or a natural disaster sets us back too far or kills us. We have sufficient resources right now, we're just not…

> 1. Lack of interest. F-35 was a lot more important, what would we do if we had to stop interfering in the middle-east? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning...

For one thing, if we (meaning you, i.e. the USA) stopped 'interfering' in the middle east the F-35 program would be completely unaffected. The F-35 is not being used in Afghanistan, and was nowhere near combat ready during the Iraq wars. I believe they are just beginning to be deployed overseas actively now [1] but that is still a long way from active combat.

1. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/washington-deploy-f-35-fighter-jets...

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