Weird article. Why excavation on Mars would be a problem?
Let's Colonize Titan
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Re: Let's Colonize Titan
#22> On Earth, we are shielded from GCRs by water in the atmosphere. But it takes two meters of water to block half of the GCRs present in unprotected space. Practically, a Moon or Mars settlement would have to be built underground to be safe from this > Underground shelter is hard to build and not flexible or easy to expand. Settlers would need enormous excavations for room to supply all their needs for food, manufactu…
Elon views Mars colonization not as a way to solve lack of habitation space in Earth, but as an off-premises security backup should something terrible happen on Earth.
Re: Let's Colonize Titan
#23I strongly believe we'll never permanently settle anything beyond earth, for reasons pointed out by this article among others. That said, please prove me wrong, I would be so very happy to be wrong.
Never is a long time. We obviously have to somehow mutate our physiology somehow, or make hyper-giant leaps in technology.
Something for near-to-far future generations to think about really.
Re: Let's Colonize Titan
#24We expect human nature to stay the same. Human beings of the future will have the same drives and needs we have now. Practically speaking, their home must have abundant energy, livable temperatures and protection from the rigors of space, including cosmic radiation, which new research suggests is unavoidably dangerous for biological beings like us I would expect the complete opposite if we really want to colonize the…
probably faster and cheaper to create human like machines In the near term that have none of the problems we have living in harsher environments.
Re: Let's Colonize Titan
#25We expect human nature to stay the same. Human beings of the future will have the same drives and needs we have now. Practically speaking, their home must have abundant energy, livable temperatures and protection from the rigors of space, including cosmic radiation, which new research suggests is unavoidably dangerous for biological beings like us I would expect the complete opposite if we really want to colonize the…
Yes, modifying humans to adapt better to different gravities, air pressures, ambient light levels and color, temperature, day length, etc., could make colonization much more practical.
Realistically, going to other planets/moons will be one way trips anyway, might as well make the most of it.
Re: Let's Colonize Titan
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
The moon doesn't have enough mass (gravity) to keep an atmosphere suitable for us there.
Trap it in a giant plastic bag ;) Yaysayers will always find an excuse why something they don't like to be impossible isn't. "But the Wright Brothers!" and all that...
Honestly why not?
If you start from the premise of domed cities, then the expansion pattern pretty obviously says glassing in the entire moon is the natural end result of that. The lower-gravity drastically reduces your requirements, and the regolith can be fused into glass and moved a 100m up to form the roof.
It also reduces your energy requirements long term because you can use mirrors at the roof-level to reflect sunlight around the entire surface to avoid a 2-week night-time cycle, and adding an atmosphere means you "naturally" can keep it warm.
Since the pressure would be exerted outwards, the entire structure would be mostly self-supporting - requirements would lean towards figuring out how to repair it in the event of meteorite impacts, but self-sealing plastic layers could be developed.
Re: Let's Colonize Titan
#27They almost had me until ... On the surface, vast quantities of hydrocarbons in solid and liquid form lie ready to be used for energy. Although the atmosphere lacks oxygen, water ice just below the surface could be used to provide oxygen for breathing and to combust hydrocarbons as fuel. Riiiight. And you're going to get the power to electrolytically split that water into hydrogen and oxygen where, exactly? (Whoever…
I believe you're spot on wrt. splitting water to provide oxygen for combustion being a non-starter.
Re: Let's Colonize Titan
#28I strongly believe we'll never permanently settle anything beyond earth, for reasons pointed out by this article among others. That said, please prove me wrong, I would be so very happy to be wrong.
The main two reasons we wouldn't settle anything beyond Earth would be:
1. Lack of interest.
2. Lack of time.
#1 is the biggest problem as far as we know right now. #2 is a problem only if we destroy our planet to the point where we can't expend resources or time, or we overpopulate and run out of resources, or a natural disaster sets us back too far or kills us.
We have sufficient resources right now, we're just not focused on the effort enough. If every government said, "You, need to change what you are doing and start helping us get off of this planet," and changed laws and regulations to encourage or enforce this, it would happen. Is that realistic? Not really. That's the reason that Musk and others are focusing so much on space. Because, if they don't do it, then who?
Re: Let's Colonize Titan
#29This article has no good reasons for Titan, it doesn't discuss water, it doesn't discuss energy or how to grow food. It says that because you can fly there and there are dunes and a liquid surface in some places its like Earth, but that doesn't help us to survive at all. To survive we need water, food and energy. How are we going to get that from Titan as opposed to Mars?
Did we read the same article? It literally rains methane on Titan. Combustion would be tricky due to lack of an oxidizer, but presumably we could use something like the fuel cell technology that's already deployed here on earth to generate electricity from CH4. Energy, at least, would not be a problem.
Clearly without oxygen you can't burn those hydrocarbons. Where do you get the oxygen from? Its like having a planet full of fuel and nothing to burn with.
Fuel cell technology needs oxygen.
Re: Let's Colonize Titan
#30> On Earth, we are shielded from GCRs by water in the atmosphere. But it takes two meters of water to block half of the GCRs present in unprotected space. Practically, a Moon or Mars settlement would have to be built underground to be safe from this > Underground shelter is hard to build and not flexible or easy to expand. Settlers would need enormous excavations for room to supply all their needs for food, manufactu…
Elon views Mars colonization not as a way to solve lack of habitation space in Earth, but as an off-premises security backup should something terrible happen on Earth.
If we were to invest in building a underwater 'Sealab' on the bottom of some ocean floor, say at least 100m water deep, what kind of cataclysmic event could destroy it.
A few dozen of the underwater sea-colonies seams the most practical safety net for humanity that we can do today.
I completely for exploring and colonizing space, but we still haven't mapped our own oceans fully. And sadly, I don't think my generation, or even the next few will be any closer to being able to get ourselves off this rock.
If you are looking to build 'Arks' for humanity, i'd put my money on the ocean floor.