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Low social status 'can damage immune system'

bbc.com

41–50 of 75 posts

Re: Low social status 'can damage immune system'

#41

But is it necessarily a bad thing? It seems like a way for nature to filter out less competitive genetic material. There are always going to be hierarchies and there will always be people at the bottom. It's an inherent part of how matter organises itself.

Trolling HN is really low status, though.

Re: Low social status 'can damage immune system'

#42

But is it necessarily a bad thing? It seems like a way for nature to filter out less competitive genetic material. There are always going to be hierarchies and there will always be people at the bottom. It's an inherent part of how matter organises itself.

Well, we also organize the systems that organize people into hierarchies, and our normative choices are just as "natural." And, to continue this kind of thinking, the mushroom clouds of the next nuclear war will also be nature's means of expression, as was slavery, and also the emancipation of slaves.

Re: Low social status 'can damage immune system'

#43

But is it necessarily a bad thing? It seems like a way for nature to filter out less competitive genetic material. There are always going to be hierarchies and there will always be people at the bottom. It's an inherent part of how matter organises itself.

Given how seniority (older being more dominant) was supposedly the major predictor to dominance ranking, it doesn't seem as if the macaque's ranking criterion reflected any kind of genetic fitness.

Re: Low social status 'can damage immune system'

#44
post #32

This is well known. Relative social status has an influence on health. Above survival level, it's healthier to be at the top of a poor culture than at the bottom of a rich one, even if the absolute level is lower.

> it's healthier to be at the top of a poor culture than at the bottom of a rich one, even if the absolute level is lower

That Big-Fish-Little-Pond effect is seen to be relevant in a lot of places, including academic performance [1][2], depression, and suicide rates.

[1] http://aer.sagepub.com/content/47/2/390.abstract

[2] http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10648-008-9075-6

Re: Low social status 'can damage immune system'

#45
post #5

As with many things, this is also more complex. This article: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303694650_Primate_r... suggests that higher status animal in this particular group have a higher parasite burden.

Low status is stressful. And so is high status.

Forced, involuntary low status is stressful.

Opting out and just not giving a four letter word does not have to be.

Re: Low social status 'can damage immune system'

#46

But is it necessarily a bad thing? It seems like a way for nature to filter out less competitive genetic material. There are always going to be hierarchies and there will always be people at the bottom. It's an inherent part of how matter organises itself.

Logical fallacy. Social status ≠ genetics. Social status is unfortunately often determined by income, race, religion, and a host of other nonlogical designations. In this experiment, social status was determined by "newness" to the group. Nothing to do with genetics.

But if social status has an impact on sexual selection or individual survival then it does have something to do with genetics. It's a selective pressure meaning that genetics will likely drift in that direction.

Re: Low social status 'can damage immune system'

#48

But is it necessarily a bad thing? It seems like a way for nature to filter out less competitive genetic material. There are always going to be hierarchies and there will always be people at the bottom. It's an inherent part of how matter organises itself.

Logical fallacy. Social status ≠ genetics. Social status is unfortunately often determined by income, race, religion, and a host of other nonlogical designations. In this experiment, social status was determined by "newness" to the group. Nothing to do with genetics.

Social status is determined by social status of forebears, intelligence, physical attractiveness, good health.

These are all heritable. This is not a matter of (formal) logic (so stop throwing 'fallacy' around); it's genetics.

Re: Low social status 'can damage immune system'

#49

But is it necessarily a bad thing? It seems like a way for nature to filter out less competitive genetic material. There are always going to be hierarchies and there will always be people at the bottom. It's an inherent part of how matter organises itself.

Well, we also organize the systems that organize people into hierarchies, and our normative choices are just as "natural." And, to continue this kind of thinking, the mushroom clouds of the next nuclear war will also be nature's means of expression, as was slavery, and also the emancipation of slaves.

> Well, we also organize the systems that organize people into hierarchies

Yes, we tend to put the most intelligent people into the best positions. Clearly what we need is more cognitive diversity because hierarchy and ranking is bad.

Re: Low social status 'can damage immune system'

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we also organize the systems that organize people into hierarchies, and our normative choices are just as "natural." And, to continue this kind of thinking, the mushroom clouds of the next nuclear war will also be nature's means of expression, as was slavery, and also the emancipation of slaves.

> Well, we also organize the systems that organize people into hierarchies Yes, we tend to put the most intelligent people into the best positions. Clearly what we need is more cognitive diversity because hierarchy and ranking is bad.

Please show me where I said that hierarchy or ranking was bad -- I was trying to say that we can control the shape of our societies, including the forms of inequality, hierarchy, ranking and so on. The comment I was replying to portrayed weakened immune systems from high social inequality as something that was just part of "nature" as matter organizes itself. Well, we are that matter, and we have this amazing ability to make choices. Look at the diversity of social orders even just in Hellenic Greece, even simply comparing Sparta, Athens, and a kingdom or tyranny.

Also, if you're implying that this human world is a functioning meritocracy, then I just can't agree. For example, just try to convincingly guess where Donald Trump would be if he'd been born into poverty.

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