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How a Pillar of German Banking Lost Its Way

spiegel.de

11–20 of 40 posts

Re: How a Pillar of German Banking Lost Its Way

#11
I think its important to note that they didn't end up this way because they were stupid or power hungry.

Like alot of companies, they made decisions that made sense at the time that ended up having poor long term consequences.

When they decided to really grow it was due to a couple of things..

1) Their competitors were all doing the same thing and they almost needed to grow their investment arm and international presence just to stay in business.

It used to be that Audi, Porchse etc would come to them for basic loans etc and business was good. But as these firms grew internationally they also needed a bank that did the same.

Audi sells in Brazil it needs a bank with a presence there as well. And along comes the big american and European banks who start selling themselves to Deutsche's current clients as a one stop shop who can do what Deutsche does but also all these new things that international modern companies need.

A company needs to get a currency or interest rate swap, well Goldman Sachs can do that, so Deutsche followed suit.

From this perspective its easy to see how they started down the road they did.

And once you start building out a international team of investment bankers and traders that means you're now competing for talent with the rest of the big players.

So how do you hire the best traders/investment bankers?

You pay them like everyone else does, which is to say you have to pay them..... alot.

You have to provide perks like New York/London/Tokyo offices and the ability to trade the hottest products and markets.

You need to let your traders make money like other firms do or they'll just leave for those other firms.

All just to keep your existing clients.

And before long you are just like everyone else.

Then in the mid 2000's during a huge bull market you have one of wall streets stars Boaz Weinstien (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boaz_Weinstein or read "The Quants") running your derivatives desk. And they made money hand over fist..... at the time.

Now the funny thing about bull markets, is that even bad trades can make money during them because everything is up and to the right.

And even if you think you are putting on too much exposure, tough, remember that so is everyone else and if you stop, then the good traders and bankers quit and go to competitors who will let them make money.

It's sort of like raising money as a startup in frothy markets. You'd just better raise money because if you don't and all your competitors raise 20 million then even if you're better they'll often win because they can survive longer than you.

It just happens that Deutsche didn't quite understand the game that was eing played, and when the music stopped, they were holding the bag so to speak.

Re: How a Pillar of German Banking Lost Its Way

#12
post #5

I used to work with DB throughout the 2000s. Occasionally, I was surprised on the levels of incompetence of middle management. It isn't uncommon in investment banks, especially when the economy is good enough, but DB upped it to the whole new level.

examples?

Re: How a Pillar of German Banking Lost Its Way

#15
Lovely long-form piece. Seems very analogous to the choice many tech companies face: focus on growing a moderately successful, proven model, or lever up to the gills with VC money and shoot for the moon. The later being sexier and higher status, but also risking catastrophic failure.

Re: How a Pillar of German Banking Lost Its Way

#16
post #14

The last time I visited Wall St., in 2015, I noticed a giant inflatable rat, directly in front of the Deutsche bank building. I figured someone was pissed off about something.

That rat gets used by labor unions across all industries. :)

Cool ! I never knew the US actually has a sort of tradition for this sort of thing. Very cool.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/28466/story-behind-giant-infl...

Re: How a Pillar of German Banking Lost Its Way

#17
post #10

I'm not too familiar with the German culture. Can someone explain to me what is this "German provincialism" that they talk about? Do Germans see themselves as provincial? Does anyone else see them as provincial?

Have you ever heard of the German Mittelstand? [1] Family-owned companies, long-term and low-risk business strategies, social responsibility, regional ties... I think that's the kind of provincialism the article talks about. Not bad, just boring. Deutsche Bank wanted to become a global player. Doing investment banking in New York and London instead of giving a small loan to Herr Müller's crankshaft oil seal factory i…

Lol, Hinterupfingen. If my German isn't a complete wreck, I believe that implies sticking a digit up the derriere. Similar to our Bumfuck, USA

Re: How a Pillar of German Banking Lost Its Way

#18
post #10

I'm not too familiar with the German culture. Can someone explain to me what is this "German provincialism" that they talk about? Do Germans see themselves as provincial? Does anyone else see them as provincial?

Have you ever heard of the German Mittelstand? [1] Family-owned companies, long-term and low-risk business strategies, social responsibility, regional ties... I think that's the kind of provincialism the article talks about. Not bad, just boring. Deutsche Bank wanted to become a global player. Doing investment banking in New York and London instead of giving a small loan to Herr Müller's crankshaft oil seal factory i…

If you have 25 minutes to spare, there's a great documentary called "Bavarian Fairytale" [1] about the Mittelstand. The core theme is how Bavaria survived the global financial crisis, but I think it does a good job of explaining the Mittelstand values through interviews with the people running the companies. (Making quality products / craftsmanship seems to be another core value.)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVFZl0s2Np0&t=3m46s

Re: How a Pillar of German Banking Lost Its Way

#19

I think its important to note that they didn't end up this way because they were stupid or power hungry. Like alot of companies, they made decisions that made sense at the time that ended up having poor long term consequences. When they decided to really grow it was due to a couple of things.. 1) Their competitors were all doing the same thing and they almost needed to grow their investment arm and international pres…

Why do you need good traders in a bull market, if everything goes up?

Re: How a Pillar of German Banking Lost Its Way

#20
post #17
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever heard of the German Mittelstand? [1] Family-owned companies, long-term and low-risk business strategies, social responsibility, regional ties... I think that's the kind of provincialism the article talks about. Not bad, just boring. Deutsche Bank wanted to become a global player. Doing investment banking in New York and London instead of giving a small loan to Herr Müller's crankshaft oil seal factory i…

Lol, Hinterupfingen. If my German isn't a complete wreck, I believe that implies sticking a digit up the derriere. Similar to our Bumfuck, USA

Sadly, no.

Hintertupfingen is merely a invented place which is most removed from the happenings in the rest of the world.

Being from Hintertupfingen implies being somewhat of a Redneck or atleast uneducated of what happens in the world.

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