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Thoughts on Flash

apple.com

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Re: Thoughts on Flash

#121

Post by DrSprout »

rimantas wrote: post #89
Qz wrote: post #72

This is where he loses me: "Though the operating system for the iPhone, iPod and iPad is proprietary, we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open." Adobe can just as easily say: "Though Flash products are proprietary, we strongly believe that standards pertaining to what software is allowed to run on your computer should be open." It's doublespeak either way, and it's crazy to think th…

I guess by "standards pertaining to the web" Apple means HTML, Javascript (ECMAScript to be precise) and CSS. What do you mean by "standards pertaining to what software is allowed to run on your computer" ?

Packaging systems and their associated programming languages / APIs. Like Android .apk files, Apple .dmg files, Microsoft's .msi. All open and usable by anyone who wants to build one (though some fees may apply.)

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#122

Post by robryan »

not_an_alien wrote: post #19

The fact that the repeats the rollover crap makes it sound as if they're really trying hard on rationalizing. Just say it's a business decision, Apple. Stop pretending you have the consumer in mind.

Well they are listing every problem that factors into the decision. I think it is about control more than just the bottom line, Apple don't have control of design decisions that are made in Flash, its much more in their interests to push people towards the app store and to a lesser extent open web technologies where they get to set direction.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#124

Post by not_an_alien »

illumin8 wrote: post #90
not_an_alien wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Flash websites will have to be rewritten because it relies on 'rollovers', which is not part of Apple's 'revolutionary' touch interface: overblown for two reasons - a) few stuff will have to be rewritten (many videos show desktop Flash content working on mobile phones without a problem); and b) this is not a problem with Flash, as any JS/HTML-based interface that relies on rollovers has the same issues. * Flash is…

Wait a minute, how is comparing H.264 hardware support for decoding (I think you meant decoding, not decompression) vs. software bullshit? Shipping versions of Flash still use software for video decoding. The only versions that use hardware are unreleased beta versions of 10.1. Your post sounds like an Adobe apologist making stuff up.

Hardware decoding of video content has been available since FP version 10, released in October 2008.

I'm not making stuff up. I actually have my history of gripes with Adobe, as if I've been working with their software for more than a decade. If anything, I'm just enraged that this article is making stuff up, and I don't like people taking ideology and fundamentalism into a discussion that should be tech-based only.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#125

Post by danielh »

tumult wrote: post #11

More good news about 3.3.1 "must write in C, Objective-C or C++" clause: it's made even more obvious here that Apple only cares about commercial middleware UI-driven applications. Those of us with custom toolkits and compilers (and games developers) can probably relax. Though, I wish they would still change the wording. I dislike having to wait for my friend's cat to click the "I Agree" button, since I cannot actuall…

I'm afraid quite the opposite is the case:

We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform.

IMHO, this sentences leaves no doubt that Apple does not only target Adobe, but any kind of layer they consider harmful for their platform.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#126

Post by not_an_alien »

grk wrote: post #71
not_an_alien wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Flash websites will have to be rewritten because it relies on 'rollovers', which is not part of Apple's 'revolutionary' touch interface: overblown for two reasons - a) few stuff will have to be rewritten (many videos show desktop Flash content working on mobile phones without a problem); and b) this is not a problem with Flash, as any JS/HTML-based interface that relies on rollovers has the same issues. * Flash is…

Objective+C++?

Yeah, that was funny. I'll blame nerd rage.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#127

Post by Shorel »

patio11 wrote: post #91
revorad wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patrick, you should totally write a book of quotes from your encounters with users. It will be really insightful and such a good laugh.

Tech folks are cynical enough without my help. Here's all the insight I can muster: non-technical people do not have an accurate mental model of how the computer works. They have a semi-accurate mental model of the steps they take to do routine things on the computer: I click this thing, then I type in this thing, then I click this thing, then the magic happens. Deviations from that routine will almost certainly caus…

What I always say to non-technical people:

All the programs and data in your computer is in files and folders, even windows is just a bunch of files. You understand this and everything else is far easier to understand.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#128

Post by c00p3r »

I wonder if all my down votes come back.. =)

btw, flash and online video is not the case. It is possible to download almost any video somehow.

All that crappy blinking and flashing ads is what flash is really for.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#129

Post by vetinari »

marknutter wrote: post #39
ThomPete wrote: post #21

There are so many things wrong with Jobs explanation I don't know where to begin. But two claims really pisses me off. Battery Life If I activate push notification it sure isn't nice to my battery. So I switch it off. The same thing could be done with flash. Or even better, make flash an opt in. What's the problem. Yes I know apple can claim that it will affect peoples impression of their products, but so do not havi…

Making flash opt-in wouldn't solve the problem. The VAST majority of non-technical users will not know about or use that setting and will blame Apple for the poor battery life, not Adobe. It's a lot about saving face here. Apple wants to be in control of their own success, which becomes hard to do when you're allowing proprietary technologies to run on their hardware. Jobs points out his frustration with Adobe taking…

You know, what draws most of the juice from the battery?

1) Radio, 2) Display.

These two facts made VAST majority of non-technical users aware, that the more they use their gadget, the shorter the battery life is.

Fortunately for them, Flash is pretty much interactive, it does not run in background and does not draw energy when the users thinks it is off. It is pretty easy for the users to comprehend that they were using flash and that's why the battery is empty.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#130

Post by joubert »

not_an_alien wrote: post #76
ptomato wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* "Objective+C++ is not open." Yeah? http://gcc.gnu.org/ * "Adobe only wants cross-platform apps, not good apps; generic subjective bullshit." Alright, so point to a single Adobe Air app, for example, that looks & behaves natively. * "Comparing video decompression versus hardware decompression battery gains and claiming that's an advantage over Flash: bullshit, since Flash uses video decompression in most cases." Did…

* If the compiler being open means Objective-C is open, then Flash is open as well: http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Flex+SDK * We're talking about mobile applications like games being good enough, not desktop applications using native components. Please don't stray the conversation. Otherwise it's as dumb as me coming and saying iTunes should not be running on Windows. * "Comparing video decompressio…

Flex is not flash
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