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Thoughts on Flash

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Re: Thoughts on Flash

#111

Post by illumin8 »

angrycoder wrote: post #82

All Apple's stubbornness does is leave more doors open for Android et all to get more penetration. Each thing you refuse to do becomes a selling point for your competitors. For example, Flash support upcoming for android. http://www.edge-online.com/news/full-adobe-flash-support-for... It doesn't matter if you do not like flash Steve, it is used on a significant portion of the internet. Either you work with them and f…

Still vaporware... I'm just saying, it would be nice if Adobe can show a reference implementation of Flash on a mobile device, and prove that it actually works well at a decent framerate without sucking battery life. This would at least give Adobe some ammunition to use against Apple, and may make Apple rethink the "no Flash" rule.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#112

Post by ThomPete »

wfarr wrote: post #85
yan wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you reacted so strongly to the roll over argument. Jobs didn't state roll overs as the raison d'etre for not including Flash, he simply used it as yet another example why the tools and, more importantly, thinking of the previous generation of web developers will not advance the platform forward. (As an example, I have been frustrated at some sites reliance of roll overs when using my iPhone). T…

"I don't understand why you reacted so strongly to the roll over argument. Jobs didn't state roll overs as the raison d'etre for not including Flash." This is why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

"Flash was designed for PCs using mice, not for touch screens using fingers. For example, many Flash websites rely on “rollovers”, which pop up menus or other elements when the mouse arrow hovers over a specific spot. Apple’s revolutionary multi-touch interface doesn’t use a mouse, and there is no concept of a rollover."

Flash don't care. You are not forced to use rollovers in flash you can but you are not forced to do it.

Drag and drop is a historical mouse feature. You have that on the iPad too. So apples touch is not more revolutionary than it still uses these.

Every other mouse metaphor is in use besides rollover.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#113

Post by cmgarcia »

patio11 wrote: post #20
jz wrote: post #7

All his reasons are fairly obvious for the technical user and have been discussed in the blogosphere, but I think hearing it from the horse's mouth and at a very high level will benefit non technical users.

I think you overestimate the degree to which non-technical users await, with bated breath, a pronouncement about programming languages from high officials at Apple. I love non-technical users. I was trying to explain to one of them yesterday that they can still use my website even after their school wipes their hard disk, and separately, even though the email address (login) is their home email address and not their…

I had precisely the same discussion yesterday with a new client. She didn't understand how our web application did not have a larger list of system requirements. She started repeating the situation in a louder, slower manner to help me understand.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#114

Post by Qz »

illumin8 wrote: post #90
not_an_alien wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Flash websites will have to be rewritten because it relies on 'rollovers', which is not part of Apple's 'revolutionary' touch interface: overblown for two reasons - a) few stuff will have to be rewritten (many videos show desktop Flash content working on mobile phones without a problem); and b) this is not a problem with Flash, as any JS/HTML-based interface that relies on rollovers has the same issues. * Flash is…

Wait a minute, how is comparing H.264 hardware support for decoding (I think you meant decoding, not decompression) vs. software bullshit? Shipping versions of Flash still use software for video decoding. The only versions that use hardware are unreleased beta versions of 10.1. Your post sounds like an Adobe apologist making stuff up.

Your post makes it sound like said beta version will never see the light of day.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#115

Post by betageek »

WilliamLP wrote: post #99

The most brilliant part of Apple's marketing here is leveraging infighting and unintended consequences in the free software community. They don't care about open standards - that they would is, on the face of it, absurd. What they do know is that they will evoke much support for championing JS/HTML/CSS as an open plaform, and that it poses no actual threat to their App Store control. This is because of two reasons: F…

The most succinct explanation yet - pity your post is one of the view voices of reason in this thread.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#116

Post by joubert »

joshwa wrote: post #74

If they're going to pitch HTML5 as an alternative to Flash (and, implicitly, the iPhoneOS API), then why not let them compete directly with Cocoa Touch apps? Why not offer HTML5 developers a way to take advantage of the App Store's monetization and discoverability? Apple already provides some amazing documentation and tutorials for making offline-capable mobile web apps, but they're still treated by Apple as the bast…

Can't you create a barebones cocoa touch app that basically just shows safari, and your app runs inside that as ja and HTML?

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#117

Post by vetinari »

marcusbooster wrote: post #59

And here we can find the real locus of the dispute: "...although Mac OS X has been shipping for almost 10 years now, Adobe just adopted it fully (Cocoa) two weeks ago when they shipped CS5." If Adobe didn't drag their feet for so long on the CS products, I think the other reasons wouldn't have mattered as much.

Reminds me, how long it took Apple to move Finder and iTunes to Cocoa? (Answers for those that don't keep score: 10.6 and not yet).

You have to remember, that Apple tried multiple rewrites of MacOS in 90' and OSX was yet another 'this time it will work out, I promise' project. If you were Adobe, would you bank your company on yet another promise? I know I wouldn't.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#118

Post by rjurney »

qeorge wrote: post #30
subbu wrote: post #14

Sachin Agarwal of Posterous explains reason#6 much better with a good example. Link here http://sachin.posterous.com/ie6-caused-the-web-to-mature-slo...

I'm a little tired of the "IE6 is holding back the web" meme. Lots of hand-waving, no examples.

You've obviously never engaged in web development. IE6 support is often the most costly part of a project.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#119

Post by ThomPete »

ThomPete wrote: post #51
marknutter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making flash opt-in wouldn't solve the problem. The VAST majority of non-technical users will not know about or use that setting and will blame Apple for the poor battery life, not Adobe. It's a lot about saving face here. Apple wants to be in control of their own success, which becomes hard to do when you're allowing proprietary technologies to run on their hardware. Jobs points out his frustration with Adobe taking…

I am speaking for myself, who else do you think I am speaking for? Regarding making flash an opt in being a problem. It's a pure interaction problem. By no metrics is it harder than to turn push notification on and off or setting your time.

By all means who ever voted me down. Prove me wrong.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#120

Post by wtallis »

city41 wrote: post #95

He just claimed Apple created WebKit, noted it's being used everywhere, and gave no nod whatsoever to the KDE team. Classy, Jobs, classy.

"For example, Apple began with a small open source project and created WebKit, a complete open-source HTML5 rendering engine that is the heart of the Safari web browser used in all our products."

He only failed to mention KHTML by name. He most certainly did not claim that they made WebKit on their own.

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