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I don’t belong in tech

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Re: I don’t belong in tech

#101

Post by imagist »

I think about problem solving and code a lot like the author. But I don't think that means she and I don't belong in tech. I think that means we don't belong in the get-rich-quick scheme that is the present tech startup industry. Or put another way: we belong just fine in tech; we don't belong in business.

It's not tech that says "move fast and break things", it's business. Business is the reason the Internet of Things is full of insecure products. Business is the reason for Web pages made unusable by popovers and ads and unnecessarily paginated articles. Business is the reason for keeping massive databases on users. Behind every problem in tech is an MBA trying to make a profit.

And that's the irony: tech people suffer for the problems business causes, but tech people don't profit from those problems. Sure, tech salaries are good, but those who determine those salaries unsurprisingly pay themselves more. We don't get the satisfaction from making a solid product and we don't get the profit from making a shitty product.

I think the key to being happy in tech is to break that cycle. Either builds things that make you joy (CRUD web apps bring no one joy), or build things that make you money (not salary money, but owner money). Don't settle for building someone else's dream and giving them the profits.

Re: I don’t belong in tech

#102

Post by wycats »

dunkelheit wrote: post #7

Maybe she should quit doing user-facing stuff and try getting into systems programming for a change. Or some other area where sloppy solutions lead to tangible reduction of business value and thus are not tolerated. Tech is big, no need to quit all of it.

There is plenty of place for polish and deep understanding in the user-facing sphere. Apple is renowned for their work in this area. My company's product, Skylight, has made a virtue out of "all the little things" - understanding problems deeply and solving them well.

I think it's reasonable for people to wish that more of user-facing software worked this way, even though it's out of sync with how Silicon Valley and Venture Capital tend to work.

Re: I don’t belong in tech

#103

Post by Kenji »

str33t_punk wrote: post #99

'I'm not a white male!' Seriously? This felt incredibly out of place in the article, it seems like its just pandering for clicks (lets talk about how women, minorities, and 'non-tech' people don't have a place in tech for the millionth time!). Not to mention the quote could have worked similarly with 'asian male' and 'indian male'. Why are you erasing the identities of other overrepresented people in tech?

Because otherwise the article has no substance. Better write a couple of preposterous lines and then back off and turn the subject to something completely different. I know exactly why a person who writes like that does not belong in tech. Imagine code written like that. Just the imagination is the pure horror.

Re: I don’t belong in tech

#104

Post by ascotan »

Interesting. Here my 2 cents.

Most software that i've worked on is terrible. It's terrible because software engineers by nature are 'technology muddlers'. They know how to program but have little insight into the world around them. By this I mean that there is very little in the way of 'deep understanding' by the guy fixing the problem.

Image I gave you a hammer and a box of nails and I told you to build a house. "Sure thing", you say. What sort of house am I going to get? A shack? Sticks nailed together? Cardboard box? It totally depends on the guy with the hammer. What happens if I gave 6 people hammers and boxes of nails and asked for the same task? Would the product be any better?

Most software developers get away with crap as a delivery because the cost of failure is low. So there's no real incentive to 'do it right' or 'make it perfect'. In fact the opposite is true. There is a real cost of failure attached to understanding a problem and taking time to solve it correctly.

If I was given an hammer and nails and asked to build a house, I could put down the hammer and go away and become an architect. However, I'd never get the house built, or I'd realize that a hammer wasn't an appropriate tool for this task. Now that you have a deep understanding of the problem now you realize that the problem is not solvable without a large time and expense.

"But I've promised that delivery in 90 days", says your boss. You then explain how that, given a toolbox full of hammers and 200K nails, this project is going to end up as a large ball of mud.

In the end the 'business of software' is pragmatic. Do you as Cassandra, having knowledge of the future but no power to change it, fight the inevitable ball of mud? Or do you accept that yes, you will not be proud of this body of work, and dutifully search Stackoverflow.com for another mud layer to pat onto it?

Personally I'm also a perfectionist and like to understand the problem deeply. I've found that this is a hindrance as well as an asset. I think that if you find yourself in this situation, find someone that is the opposite to pair program with. That way you can balance out your own strengths and weaknesses.

Re: I don’t belong in tech

#105

Post by agumonkey »

I kinda get the feeling, the holistic understanding has always been a requirement for me, and peaked when systems grew either too big or too fluid (js fatigue).

It's hard to accept the sniper mentality where you try to find a target ASAP and remove it quickly. Instead of migrating the world smoothly.

Re: I don’t belong in tech

#107

Post by brightball »

tptacek wrote: post #83
brightball wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not implying that. Just that her way of thinking is a much better fit in that environment.

Could you explain? Because she sounds like the opposite of an LoB enterprise programmer to me.

In the enterprise environments that I've been in, there has always been a big push for over engineering. The idea of iterating and improving is generally frowned on and the waterfall mentality tends to shine. Waterfall planning revolves around trying to understand the entire problem, plan every step of the way and then methodically deliver a solution that's prematurely optimized. Once the project is over it's handed off to a production support team with the goal of living virtually forever.

Her mindset of wanting to fully understand the problem, why it's a problem, etc seems like it would fit be in an environment where you had lots of time and a lot of people that you could meet with to gather information, plan, etc.

Re: I don’t belong in tech

#108

Post by enraged_camel »

rm999 wrote: post #63
woah wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll have to disagree. I used to be a carpenter and the objective is definitely not to be perfect. Building anything, houses or apps, the objective is to work within tolerances. The modern system of 2x4 framing and drywall allows those tolerances to be very loose without affecting the end product, but I digress. Would you prefer a half-finished house with perfectly cut studs (that you can't see inside the drywall), o…

There's a huge difference in economics. A house will be used, so looser tolerances in carpentry are not obviously good and are seen by many as a bad trend. Sure, you may not die from those lower tolerances, but you'll likely regret it. See for example http://www.mcmansionhell.com/post/150597521816/mcmansions-10... The median house will be used for decades, the median software is used for months (maybe days, or even m…

>> the median software is used for months (maybe days, or even minutes).

This may be true for trivial web apps, but line-of-business software is often used for years, sometimes decades.

Re: I don’t belong in tech

#109

Post by hartator »

imagist wrote: post #101

I think about problem solving and code a lot like the author. But I don't think that means she and I don't belong in tech. I think that means we don't belong in the get-rich-quick scheme that is the present tech startup industry. Or put another way: we belong just fine in tech; we don't belong in business . It's not tech that says "move fast and break things", it's business. Business is the reason the Internet of Thi…

"CRUD web apps bring no one joy"?

Re: I don’t belong in tech

#110

Post by angersock »

user5994461 wrote: post #68
dack wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about that - designers have to build a UX that works in the real world, and sometimes there are really complicated processes that need to be exposed in a nice way. I imagine this has similar tradeoffs as programming (i.e. difficulty in implementation, balancing power/intuitiveness)

As a designer, one can live exclusively in "photoshop", ignoring the complexity of the process and the reality of usage. It's not like you can "test" a drawing with a real user. As a programmer, you gotta get all the little details right or the application is not possible to use. There is no way around it, whatever is forgotten will just hit you right in your face. And last but not least. Drawing is dead easy. A prog…

Thank you for illustrating my (apparently unpopular) point.
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