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Thoughts on Flash

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Re: Thoughts on Flash

#41

Post by plinkplonk »

tumult wrote: post #11

More good news about 3.3.1 "must write in C, Objective-C or C++" clause: it's made even more obvious here that Apple only cares about commercial middleware UI-driven applications. Those of us with custom toolkits and compilers (and games developers) can probably relax. Though, I wish they would still change the wording. I dislike having to wait for my friend's cat to click the "I Agree" button, since I cannot actuall…

"Those of us with custom toolkits and compilers (and games developers) can probably relax."

Which part of the submitted article supports this? (genuine question not snark). I see a lot of flash bashing but nothing indicating you don't have to " write in C, Objective-C or C++"

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#42

Post by teamonkey »

not_an_alien wrote: post #33
ugh wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which arguments are FUD?

* Flash websites will have to be rewritten because it relies on 'rollovers', which is not part of Apple's 'revolutionary' touch interface: overblown for two reasons - a) few stuff will have to be rewritten (many videos show desktop Flash content working on mobile phones without a problem); and b) this is not a problem with Flash, as any JS/HTML-based interface that relies on rollovers has the same issues. * Flash is…

"Fortunately, there are over 50,000 games and entertainment titles on the App Store, and many of them are free. There are more games and entertainment titles available for iPhone, iPod and iPad than for any other platform in the world." Clearly nonsense.

I'm willing to bet that there are many, many more games and entertainment apps written in Flash alone than there are on the app store.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#43

Post by marknutter »

not_an_alien wrote: post #19

The fact that the repeats the rollover crap makes it sound as if they're really trying hard on rationalizing. Just say it's a business decision, Apple. Stop pretending you have the consumer in mind.

Straw man. The rollover isn't the most compelling argument, but it's a good point.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#44

Post by eli »

ThomPete wrote: post #21

There are so many things wrong with Jobs explanation I don't know where to begin. But two claims really pisses me off. Battery Life If I activate push notification it sure isn't nice to my battery. So I switch it off. The same thing could be done with flash. Or even better, make flash an opt in. What's the problem. Yes I know apple can claim that it will affect peoples impression of their products, but so do not havi…

re: battery life, if you want a phone that is infinitely tweakable get a Nexus One. Apple devices are unapologetic about restricting you in ways that Apple thinks provide for a better user experience.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#45

Post by not_an_alien »

ugh wrote: post #25
not_an_alien wrote: post #19

The fact that the repeats the rollover crap makes it sound as if they're really trying hard on rationalizing. Just say it's a business decision, Apple. Stop pretending you have the consumer in mind.

What’s wrong about this argument? Would all Flash content that uses rollover just work on mobile touch devices or would some kind of modification be necessary? I’m really curious about that.

If they're based on rollovers only, no. But again -- the argument is bogus because it makes it sound as if EVERY Flash content relies on rollovers alone (they don't - click or dragging is the norm) and that it's a Flash only problem (it's not, as I know plenty of websites that rely on rollovers for menus and as such just don't work on a mobile, touch-based browser).

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#46

Post by ThomPete »

yan wrote: post #36
ThomPete wrote: post #21

There are so many things wrong with Jobs explanation I don't know where to begin. But two claims really pisses me off. Battery Life If I activate push notification it sure isn't nice to my battery. So I switch it off. The same thing could be done with flash. Or even better, make flash an opt in. What's the problem. Yes I know apple can claim that it will affect peoples impression of their products, but so do not havi…

I don't understand why you reacted so strongly to the roll over argument. Jobs didn't state roll overs as the raison d'etre for not including Flash, he simply used it as yet another example why the tools and, more importantly, thinking of the previous generation of web developers will not advance the platform forward. (As an example, I have been frustrated at some sites reliance of roll overs when using my iPhone). T…

The touch argument just isn't valid. What exactly is it that can't be done with flash just because it's a touch environment. Flash don't care about what the input is. It will listen for what you ask it to listen to.

Regarding battery life

And why couldn't the phone warn you off reduced battery life if you turn on flash?

You simply make it an opt in, the first time someone is running flash you overlay a warning saying that flash reduces battery life and you can turn that warning off.

Its simple interaction design, apple are masters at that.

None of the problems stated can't be solved or are not already there with regular html (rollovers on plenty of normal html sites)

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#47

Post by marknutter »

qeorge wrote: post #30
subbu wrote: post #14

Sachin Agarwal of Posterous explains reason#6 much better with a good example. Link here http://sachin.posterous.com/ie6-caused-the-web-to-mature-slo...

I'm a little tired of the "IE6 is holding back the web" meme. Lots of hand-waving, no examples.

As a developer who has many times decided not to implement a killer feature that works in a modern browser because I will have to come up with some graceful degradation or alternative implementation in IE6, I can say that it isn't hand waving.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#48

Post by ptomato »

not_an_alien wrote: post #33
ugh wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which arguments are FUD?

* Flash websites will have to be rewritten because it relies on 'rollovers', which is not part of Apple's 'revolutionary' touch interface: overblown for two reasons - a) few stuff will have to be rewritten (many videos show desktop Flash content working on mobile phones without a problem); and b) this is not a problem with Flash, as any JS/HTML-based interface that relies on rollovers has the same issues. * Flash is…

* "Objective+C++ is not open." Yeah? http://gcc.gnu.org/

* "Adobe only wants cross-platform apps, not good apps; generic subjective bullshit." Alright, so point to a single Adobe Air app, for example, that looks & behaves natively.

* "Comparing video decompression versus hardware decompression battery gains and claiming that's an advantage over Flash: bullshit, since Flash uses video decompression in most cases." Did you read the article? "the video on almost all Flash websites currently requires an older generation decoder that is not implemented in mobile chips and must be run in software" But hey, easy to prove wrong. Point to one mobile phone with Flash (not flash lite) support that has decent battery life. ... Oh, wait... Well, one mobile phone that has Flash support period? No?

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#49

Post by tjogin »

gfunk911 wrote: post #6

I love this. Apple clearly laid out their reasoning, using facts and persuasive argument. The world needs more of this. Obviously, there is some spin in the post, and I don't completely agree with 100% of it, but I love the level of discourse.

John Gruber has been making these exact points. This could basically be ghost written by Gruber and we wouldn't know the difference.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#50

Post by lpgauth »

cnicolaou wrote: post #4

There is an even more expressive quote for Adobe to peruse: "Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind."

Webkit?
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