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Fidel Castro has died

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Re: Fidel Castro has died

#491

Post by cloverich »

dorfsmay wrote: post #450
id wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Communism is a very vicious ideology which leaves no room for any type of dissent. Looks like you have no idea what communism really is.

Part of the communist rhetoric is that complete free speech is not good. But before judging that aspect of communism, remember that it's other type of regime apply the same restrictions, and indeed communism was illegal in the U.S. at some point.

When I first started learning about communism (college really) I went in thinking this. But I recall eventually thinking that if the mantra of communist revolution was a forceful overthrow of existing government -- by definition not the will of the (majority) people - then a ban on the parties (public) existence was justified. Do you agree with the premise and if so does it affect the equality of your comparison at all (the free speech restrictions)?

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#492

Post by formula1 »

6t6t6t6 wrote: post #461
Veen wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are descendants of the middle and upper classes who benefited from the previous regime and lost everything when Castro came to power.

They are actually descendants of the people who had a good life under the dictatorship of Batista. Cuban Revolution was not for a wimp. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista

Not sure your point. The claims here indicate that most plantations were american owned and that likely frustrated cubans to the point a revolution was intreresting. But immigration from cuba isnt just 1 time. There has been a consistant flood of migrants that risk their lives to escape. Back in the 90's there was the Emilio Gonzolez contreversey where the mom died to get her son to the US.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#493

Post by encoderer »

My Father in Law had dinner with Fidel 10-15 years ago on a trade delegation. One of his colleagues had a little too much to drink and over cigars he turned to Castro and said 'I have to ask. A lot of people in my country think Cuba might have been involved in the assassination of JFK. What do you think about that?'

The room goes totally silent. All eyes on Castro and his bodyguards lining the walls. He says 'when the missiles were removed, the US vowed not to invade Cuba. I would've been a fool to do anything that would give the US the desire and moral high ground to break that promise. Nothing could come from killing Kennedy that would justify such a risk for Cuba'.

The remarkable part, I'm told, is that he laughed it off and the revelry continued.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#494

Post by sangnoir »

geezerjay wrote: post #327
sangnoir wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And fighting against this communist evil were the righteous forces of Unita and apartheid South Africa.

Have you actually looked at the faction supported by Cuba? Not only are they responsible for launching global private military corporations, they are Africa's worse cleptocracy. Then, oddly enough, MPLA also intervened in Namibia's civil war against the communists.

There are no clean hands on either side, I reject the notion that Apartheid South Africa were the good guys, after all it birthed its own own private military corporation (Executive Outcomes), supplied a lot of mercenaries throughout global hotspots and had a nuclear program they only dismantled after it became clear that black people would be allowed to vote.

The intersection of African Liberation politics and Cold war politics was very complex, but generally the west found itself on the side of the colonial authorities. In the end, colonialism and communism lost.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#495

Post by varjag »

Trombone12 wrote: post #477
varjag wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also ended up a lot better than non-intervention in Syria. Although make no mistake, the USA is blamed for both anyway.

There is still civil war in Libya, it barely gets any mentioning so I don't know how much less the killings are. Furthermore, non-intervention only meant no actual American troops in Syria, not staying out of the conflict: the US has funded, armed and trained much of the opposition from the start of the conflict, and US made and supplied anti-tank weapons are prominent in the rebels ability to counter the armoured fo…

Victims of Libyan conflicts are still counted in thousands (which is huge still when viewed alone), and there is no refugee crisis thus far.

Any of the US involvement to Syria beyond verbal support occurred only years into the conflict, and even then it was minimal compared to meddling of Turkey, Arab states or Russia.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#496

Post by endisukaj »

kuschku wrote: post #197
macobo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Original comment was: > And the US isn’t putting nukes into Estonia? Honest question: Where is this coming from? I'd hate to call this war-mongering and spreading misinformation, but this is a great way to polarize a conversation in one fell scoop.

The problem is just that you have to see it a lot more nuanced. It was the cold war, and the US had already put nukes into Italy and Turkey, well within range of Moscow. In such a game-theoretical standoff, the USSR had had to react – to keep the balance of power. It’s a completely crazy situation, and I’d consider both sides of the conflict as Evil , but I’m not sure why so many people try to claim the US was Good ,…

> US was Good, while the USSR was Evil

Objectively? They were both Evil. If you compare them, the USSR is hands down the evil one. I really hate this whitewashing of USSR's history just to put down the US. I'm pretty sure nobody here defending Castro or Cuba ever had to live under a communist dictatorship.

It's as simple as:

Ask anyone from Eastern Europe or even Cuba on whose sphere of influence would they had rather been. I'm willing to bet everything that 90% of the answers will be NATO.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#497

Post by dsego »

dorfsmay wrote: post #437
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"First they came for the Socialists..." Hitler was right-wing.

It was a socialist party. It does not reflect on socialism in general, but don't equate racism, natinalism etc... to necessarily extreme right: "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei": National Socialist German Workers' Party "Its precursor, the German Workers' Party" "The party was created as a means to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.[7] Initially, Nazi political strategy foc…

Sounds like Trump.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#498

Post by quonn »

edblarney wrote: post #388

Today, most Cuban ex-pats around the world are celebrating his death. Liberal Arts students across the Western World are saddened. To me that's funny.

The ex-pats are almost by definition opposed to the regime. No surprises here.

Meanwhile, the liberal arts students may have learned to compare Cuba to other and similar countries and draw their conclusions. I have referred to the HDI in a different post where Cuba ranks 40. I have also traveled extensively throughout Latin America and lived there for some time. So I can make some comparisons as well.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#499

Post by [deleted] »

peteretep wrote: post #380
vixen99 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's pretty much black and white for most of us if for life's duration we're forced to do what someone tells us to do. If permitted, we could do a few polls and discover whether such sanctions are regarded by those affected as 'consensus reality'. 'Evil' has religious overtones but it's not a bad word to sum up such a situation.

> we're forced to do what someone > tells us to do That is the case in almost all non-ananarchic societies. You are confusing a lack of suffrage for effective slavery.

[deleted]

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#500

Post by crdoconnor »

gaius wrote: post #333
crdoconnor wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try working on minimum wage in London.

My first job in London in the 90s was £3/hr. But tell me more about this "minimum wage" - £7.50/hr isn't it?

First tell me more about how much rent you paid in the early 90s.
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