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Fidel Castro has died

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Re: Fidel Castro has died

#281

Post by icantdrive55 »

mzw_mzw wrote: post #212
enraged_camel wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it can. Cuba is an island nation and relies on trade to acquire the vast majority of the goods those of us in the West take for granted. Block that trade and you basically stifle all economic growth. From wikipedia: >>Cuba produces sugarcane, tobacco, citrus, coffee, rice, potatoes, beans and livestock.[2] As of 2015 Cuba imported about 70-80% of its food.[51] and 80-84% of the food it rations to the public…

And of course the Communist economic system -- the one that has led to immiseration and collapse everywhere it has been tried, all over the world -- has nothing to do with this. Must be the embargo!

Yea, it's just Socialism. It's horrid. It's always bad. Capitalism hasen't worked out in the little bit of history we call modern society. So--lets just throw all of the theory out the window. My hands are covering my ears.

The great capitalist country, the great experiment, the almighty America is the only way. I think about our great experiment when I step over the ever increasing number of homeless.

And yes, the great American experiment is still kinda working--for some of you.

But maybe, someday, somewhere, a country just might find a communistic model that does work?

Then, maybe, we won't be so smugly dogmatic about the rightness of our supposedly Capitalistic system?

Hell, my America doesn't feel free anymore. Yes, I can run my mouth, but that's about it.

My ecomonic prospects are dwindling yearly. I'm being fined, and fee'd when I open the door to my for great profit apartment. A chit hole where I am forced to live. I'd rather live in a tee pee by the coast, but I can't legally, without paying huge sums of money. Oh, wait--I might be able to live kida free in Alaska? I can't get a loan. My only successful friends are from wealthy families. I'm not yahoo American anymore. And no, I wouldn't live in any of the other chit holes, with the exception of a lot of European countries, Australia, and maybe Japan.

Yes--we are still winning the war, but some days our experiment doesn't work for dudes like me.

It's always worked for the rich kids though. Why? I can't recall the last Horatio Alger. We had a lot of examples up until the early 80's? We seem to be on the downward slide since though?

Sorry, about venting. It's the holidays the paid dude keeps telling me.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#282

Post by int_19h »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #121

Has there been a single anti-American dictator who has actually improved the lives of their people? It seems the amount of anti-American rhetoric is directly correlated with how much they screw their country over.

Putin did actually improve the lives of his people. Problem is, it was all largely based on exploiting oil exports during a boom - basically, pocket a hefty chunk, but spend the rest to improve the economy and quality of life. So when oil prices went down, so did the prosperity.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#283

Post by Piskvorrr »

rorykoehler wrote: post #266
gragas wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>with a superpower fixated on killing you (and ruining you economy) next door Look at how awful the quality of life in Cuba is today. Look at its people's lack of basic freedoms. Look at its awful economy. The US tried to save Cuba from itself.

The problem with the US model is it leaves no room for other/different ideas. It is all consuming. Now that it has no competition to keep itself in check it is well on the way to consuming itself.

No competition? Look again, this is not 1990 any more.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#284

Post by bzbarsky »

IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #251
edblarney wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cuba has been under embargos for decades. " Cuba has been embargoed only by the USA. Cuba can buy absolutely anything it needs - even American products - simply by going through any one of a myriad of interlocutors: Mexico, Canada, Jamaica, Venezuela. There is absolutely no forgiving Fidel's cruel dictatorship.

That's not true at all. Companies that do any business with Cuba are not allowed to do business with American companies/individuals.

As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, that's not true. As a simple counterexample, Air Canada flies to Cuba and does business with US companies/individuals just fine.

I'm not an expert on the embargo, and it's a bit complicated because it's got multiple pieces of enabling legislation, but at first glance the only one of those that says anything close to what you're saying is Title III of the Helms-Burton act (see http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/... for full text). That explicitly allows companies "trafficking in property which was confiscated by the Cuban Government on or after January 1, 1959", if it was confiscated from a United States national, to be sued in US courts. This obviously only matters to companies doing business in the US, because otherwise they don't care whether they get sued to start with. Note also that certain forms of real estate are excluded from the provisions of this law, again at first glance.

Am I just missing something? Do you have a citation for your claim?

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#285

Post by kgwgk »

matt4077 wrote: post #168
ekianjo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Per capita GDP for Cuba is $6,051.22 That does not mean anything if the wealth is not well distributed (which is the case when elites keep the wealth and everyone else is poor).

Life expectancy: USA: 78.74 years Cuba: 79.07 years They must have done something right.

How Cubans' Health Improved When Their Economy Collapsed

Sometimes financial crises can force lifestyle changes for the better.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/04/how-cubans...

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#286

Post by [deleted] »

chirau wrote: post #24

As an African, I'd say the world has lost one of the most influential leaders of the past century. To pretend here, for me, as if he was cruel to our continent would be both ungrateful and untrue. The man offered free training and medical school for most of our African doctors, he harbored, trained and armed many a guerilla group in our pursuit of independence from colonization. Up until today, Cuba still sends signi…

[deleted]

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#287

Post by bzbarsky »

gragas wrote: post #40
ant6n wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to those who cheer the advent of capitalism in Cuba as a 'freer society', consider that now there's the form of proto-capitalism that existed in Eastern Europe and the former soviet countries after the fall of the wall. It's the time when society divides into economic winners and losers, and the wealth gap will increase - sometimes dramatically. So yay innovation and (somewhat more) freedom, but woe social tensio…

Fidel's brother Raul is in power. He is 85, but I don't have reason to believe much will change in Cuba if Raul dies as well.

It's hard to say. Some of the provisions of the pieces of US legislation that establish the US embargo of Cuba only apply while either Fidel or Raul is in power; they are explicitly named in the legislation text, iirc. Of course more legislation could be passed extending those terms to whoever the new leaders end up being, but I suspect (and hope!) it's more likely that the embargo would just end up being loosened somewhat at least by default.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#288

Post by hal9000xp »

aikah wrote: post #243
hal9000xp wrote: post #106

As a Russian, who was born in USSR, I regret that CIA has failed to assassinate him 50 years ago. May be Cuba would be liberated from communist/socialist disease. Look at countries who declared a war against free markets - Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea. They are absolutely pathetic.

> As a Russian, who was born in USSR, I regret that CIA has failed to assassinate him 50 years ago. Your problem is thinking that covered operations make the world better. It obviously didn't work in Iran, Vietnam, Cambodia, Congo, Argentina, Venezuela, Colombia, Bolivia and many others countries. In fact it made the situation worse in most cases.

Because just topping dictator is not enough, you also have to manage coup and support right side (i.e. those who are in favour democracy, secularism and market economy).

US sucks at finding and supporting right side.

If US just assassinated Castro but did nothing else communist regime won't fall, it can even gain stronger support from masses. The coup should be well prepared and US should feel responsibility about what will happen after.

Coup is definitely very difficult and complicated surgery.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#289

Post by [deleted] »

Lordarminius wrote: post #91

After reading some of the comments here, my fath in the human race is not enhanced. Castro was a genuine hero and a great man; indeed among the top 10 greatest individuals of the 20th century. He believed in freedom and dignity. He saw the US government as the enemy of progress everywhere in the world; he wanted people to be free and he devoted his life to that ideal. How many people can you say that of? > He was als…

[deleted]

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#290

Post by bzbarsky »

betolink wrote: post #45
AmVess wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If standing up to an empire means subjecting your country to half a century's worth of squalor and poverty, then...yeah, he really showed us what's what.

I'm not going to get into details but if you take major economic facts about Cuba before the revolution and after it the balance is clear. http://hdr.undp.org/en/countries/profiles/CUB comparatively they do better than most Latin American countries. It's a shame that their leaders weren't more pragmatic and allowed more civil liberties but then again, they always lived under an embargo and a permanent terror campaign…

Cuba was doing better than most Latin American countries before the revolution too, for what it's worth.
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