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Fidel Castro has died

bbc.com

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Re: Fidel Castro has died

#241

Post by agumonkey »

gragas wrote: post #117
coldtea wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, the man has committed grievous crimes Way less crimes than those who accuse him. Never sprayed Vietnamese with Agent Orange or napalms for one, never dropped nuclear bombs on civilians, never supported Pinochet et co, doesn't have 25% of the world's incarcerated in just 4% of the global population, and lots of other things besides. > keeps 'his people' in abject poverty A 40+ years embargo has something to…

>Way less crimes than those who accuse him. Never sprayed Vietnamese with Agent Orange or napalms for one, never dropped nuclear bombs on civilians, never supported Pinochet et co, doesn't have 25% of the world's incarcerated in just 4% of the global population, and lots of other things besides. That's a logical fallacy. You can't say that Castro's crimes against humanity are okay because the US has committed worse o…

May I also add that short but extreme crimes feel different than prolongated even if less violent ones ?

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#242

Post by hashkb »

wildmusings wrote: post #233
jknoepfler wrote: post #119

I would encourage the commenters in this thread who see Fidel's legacy as a black-and-white matter of an "evil dictator who did bad things and was wrong about economics" to step back, bear witness to the objective facts about Fidel Castro's life ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro ), think sincerely about what could lead a highly intelligent and charismatic person to become or follow Fidel Castro (as many ha…

My family and the family of just about everyone I grew up around had their whole lives destroyed by this evil man. He has executed thousands, has imprisoned thousands more, and has totally ruined a country that was once the most prosperous in Latin America. You may philosophize about the 'complexity' of the life of this evil man, but for people who actually lived under his abuse, who have seen what he has done to the…

I get your point, but with respect I believe you are missing the point to which you're responding. You may be too close, and again, that's totally understandable.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#243

Post by aikah »

hal9000xp wrote: post #106

As a Russian, who was born in USSR, I regret that CIA has failed to assassinate him 50 years ago. May be Cuba would be liberated from communist/socialist disease. Look at countries who declared a war against free markets - Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea. They are absolutely pathetic.

> As a Russian, who was born in USSR, I regret that CIA has failed to assassinate him 50 years ago.

Your problem is thinking that covered operations make the world better. It obviously didn't work in Iran, Vietnam, Cambodia, Congo, Argentina, Venezuela, Colombia, Bolivia and many others countries. In fact it made the situation worse in most cases.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#244

Post by IslaDeEncanta »

bobwaycott wrote: post #207
ant6n wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism proposes to collectivize the means of production; there's still _some_ individual ownership.

No, for Marx, there is no individual ownership, as the first, post-capital phase has removed private ownership of the means of production. There is social ownership only. There is individual participation as part of the social whole, but individual ownership and private property of any sort is abolished.

Private property does not include personal property, as Marxists understand it. The Marxian definition of private property is essentially capital.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#245

Post by duncanawoods »

rat87 wrote: post #192
chinhodado wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only a US embargo. That leaves more than 80% of the rest of the world GDP to interact with. That's a naive view. Do you really think the rest of the world can just straight up ignore the US's embargo and play nice with Cuba, while still staying on good terms with the US?

Yes. My impression was then when America tried to force other countries to participate in the embargo they told them to shove it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms%E2%80%93Burton_Act Also yes Cuba has trade with the rest of the world http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/cub/ > Cuba is the 140th largest export economy in the world. In 2014, Cuba exported $1.74B and imported $5.91B, resulting in a negative t…

>> My impression was then when America tried to force other countries to participate in the embargo they told them to shove it.

Your impression is wrong.

An example knock-on effect relevant to HN is that as a UK company, we couldn't sell windows software to Cuba because things like windows run-time libraries would be covered by the US export embargo. In theory, they wouldn't even have a legal copy of any US operating system.

I'm sure there were similar knock-on effects across all industries that had US products, suppliers or connections in their business.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#246

Post by IslaDeEncanta »

hal9000xp wrote: post #106

As a Russian, who was born in USSR, I regret that CIA has failed to assassinate him 50 years ago. May be Cuba would be liberated from communist/socialist disease. Look at countries who declared a war against free markets - Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea. They are absolutely pathetic.

Russia still has not regained the standard of living that existed during the USSR.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#247

Post by [deleted] »

hashkb wrote: post #242
wildmusings wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family and the family of just about everyone I grew up around had their whole lives destroyed by this evil man. He has executed thousands, has imprisoned thousands more, and has totally ruined a country that was once the most prosperous in Latin America. You may philosophize about the 'complexity' of the life of this evil man, but for people who actually lived under his abuse, who have seen what he has done to the…

I get your point, but with respect I believe you are missing the point to which you're responding. You may be too close, and again, that's totally understandable.

[deleted]

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#248

Post by IslaDeEncanta »

elcapitan wrote: post #18

I guess death by old age is definitely an "unnatural" death for a dictator. When he was very old but still in power, I always wondered if he would just suddenly die one day and his country would descend into chaos. At least that has not happened, what, if you like or dislike him, you should probably still credit him. I hope Cuba will develop into a freer society over time.

Cuba is not a dictatorship. It's a democracy with extremely localized control.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#249

Post by iiiggglll »

Lordarminius wrote: post #91

After reading some of the comments here, my fath in the human race is not enhanced. Castro was a genuine hero and a great man; indeed among the top 10 greatest individuals of the 20th century. He believed in freedom and dignity. He saw the US government as the enemy of progress everywhere in the world; he wanted people to be free and he devoted his life to that ideal. How many people can you say that of? > He was als…

> He believed in freedom

> I detest the hypocrisy I see in many (not all) western commentators.

A counterexample: this photo was taken in NYC after the most recent US presidential election:

http://i.imgur.com/DcVbqAm.jpg

It's a picture of someone standing in front of Trump Tower holding a sign that says "You're not my president. Fuck you."

Can you imagine someone getting away with that in Castro's Cuba?

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#250

Post by geezerjay »

wildmusings wrote: post #233
jknoepfler wrote: post #119

I would encourage the commenters in this thread who see Fidel's legacy as a black-and-white matter of an "evil dictator who did bad things and was wrong about economics" to step back, bear witness to the objective facts about Fidel Castro's life ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro ), think sincerely about what could lead a highly intelligent and charismatic person to become or follow Fidel Castro (as many ha…

My family and the family of just about everyone I grew up around had their whole lives destroyed by this evil man. He has executed thousands, has imprisoned thousands more, and has totally ruined a country that was once the most prosperous in Latin America. You may philosophize about the 'complexity' of the life of this evil man, but for people who actually lived under his abuse, who have seen what he has done to the…

> He has executed thousands, has imprisoned thousands more, and has totally ruined a country that was once the most prosperous in Latin America.

In Africa Fidel Castro also took part in one of the most murderous civil wars in the continent, the Angolan civil war, and fought to establish the continent's worse dictator and cleptocracy, José Eduardo dos Santos and his MPLA cronies.

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