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What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

aeon.co

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Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#391
post #15
post #5

There is a difference between a job you like, and a job you do because you believe "work sets you free" or because you believe work is a some sort of value or a necessary pain everybody has to take part in. I'm unemployed and I really don't think I have any duties to work in fast food or to deliver pizza because I must contribute. If I decide I can live poor and be happy with welfare, I will. I think it's a great thi…

You don't think you have any duty to try not to live off welfare, as long as not many people do it?

Legally, I think no, I don't. Morally? I don't believe in morals.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#392
Don't confuse passion with doing overtime. When I do things outside work that have to do with computers - for example helping kids to learn programming - I do this because I like programming. Not to please my employer. As a friend put but nicely: we would do our job without being paid because we like programming so much. But then we would need to do a different job to get the money to get by.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#393
post #374
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can think of all the bullshit jobs people do and then come to the conclusion that it'd be better for me to do what I can to contribute to society through research, participation in free software projects, volunteering, etc. Doing that I could be useful to thousands, maybe even millions of people. As opposed to, say, wasting the time of hundreds of people trying to sell them stupid magazines they don't need or want…

Most jobs are honest and do people a service, you don't even need to look hard or anything. If you want impact, and can write software, there's plenty of well-paid jobs for that in the US; Silicon Valley and elsewhere. That not only lets you contribute taxes instead of living off them, it also helps you be more productive, focused, and impactful. Is teaching a bullshit job? Installing solar panels in people's roofs?…

The former jobs you describe require education or experience, and are in limited supply.

Waiting tables means you live on tips. It's not a job you can do for life.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#394
post #202
post #5

There is a difference between a job you like, and a job you do because you believe "work sets you free" or because you believe work is a some sort of value or a necessary pain everybody has to take part in. I'm unemployed and I really don't think I have any duties to work in fast food or to deliver pizza because I must contribute. If I decide I can live poor and be happy with welfare, I will. I think it's a great thi…

> and economies might change because people stop consuming How an economy heavily based on excessive consumption is a good thing?

It's not a good thing, but consumption is what keep economies running fast, meaning more jobs and more everything.

Just like planned obsolescence has its set of advantages, even if it is a despicable practice.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#395
post #391
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think you have any duty to try not to live off welfare, as long as not many people do it?

Legally, I think no, I don't. Morally? I don't believe in morals.

Interesting. Honest question, do you believe in anything other than laws as a guide for life? I suspect you do, but I don't want to assume so, given your comment. I find "if it's legal, it's okay" problematic given that laws change. If laws can change, what drives that change if not some code the laws are meant to approach?

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#396
post #5

There is a difference between a job you like, and a job you do because you believe "work sets you free" or because you believe work is a some sort of value or a necessary pain everybody has to take part in. I'm unemployed and I really don't think I have any duties to work in fast food or to deliver pizza because I must contribute. If I decide I can live poor and be happy with welfare, I will. I think it's a great thi…

>"work sets you free" As a side note, recently there's been a drive to not normalize fascist slogans or ideas in mainstream politics. Among those, "arbeit macht frei" is a particularly offensive one, since it was written on the gates of Auschwitz. Just saying. When someone quotes this kind of phrase to us, we should remind them where they got it from and refuse to treat it as normal. >I'm unemployed and I really don'…

> since it was written on the gates of Auschwitz

That's why I used it

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#397
post #5

There is a difference between a job you like, and a job you do because you believe "work sets you free" or because you believe work is a some sort of value or a necessary pain everybody has to take part in. I'm unemployed and I really don't think I have any duties to work in fast food or to deliver pizza because I must contribute. If I decide I can live poor and be happy with welfare, I will. I think it's a great thi…

> I'm unemployed and I really don't think I have any duties to work in fast food or to deliver pizza because I must contribute. If I decide I can live poor and be happy with welfare, I will. I think it's a great thing to be able to live a frugal life and still be healthy enough. Why do you think that you should have the right to live off of other people's work? Welfare checks aren't fairy money, they're money that ca…

Taxes are written in the law, and I'm not obligated to work a job by law.

So your argument is solely a moral one. Jobs are mostly a first served problem or the result of privilege: education, network, etc.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#398

Maybe a better approach is how can we spend the surplus labour? There are lots of things I see need doing looking around my neighbourhood - public parks need cleaning up, old houses could be torn down and make some nice new ones, old roads could be fixed. Probably stacks of other things. Maybe some creative accounting will enable us to do these things? I know national parks near me have great paths that were built in…

That's one of the odd things about the situation. Lots of unemployed people, lots of things needed, no way to match the two.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#399
post #393
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most jobs are honest and do people a service, you don't even need to look hard or anything. If you want impact, and can write software, there's plenty of well-paid jobs for that in the US; Silicon Valley and elsewhere. That not only lets you contribute taxes instead of living off them, it also helps you be more productive, focused, and impactful. Is teaching a bullshit job? Installing solar panels in people's roofs?…

The former jobs you describe require education or experience, and are in limited supply. Waiting tables means you live on tips. It's not a job you can do for life.

I taught myself to code - I wouldn't say that kind of education is in short supply.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#400
Work is not about building character. It's about getting shit done. The delusion isn't in work itself. It's in thinking it somehow makes or breaks us. In reality, it has nothing to do with us. Once you get your ego out of the way, it only gets easier. For only then can we truly focus ON THE TASK and not ON OURSELVES. And it's when we see the fruits of our labor in all of its extraordinaire that ordinary people become heroes.

There is plenty of work. The only problem is with quality, because the fact of the matter is, most work just sucks. And it just gets worse.

That's because most work is delegated. Meaning, it's packaged and marginalized into it's simplest form to minimize mistakes and maximize simplicity, and it just keeps raining from above. Such work sucks to most people. It's Foxconn, it's berry picking, it's beneath us.

But it isn't. That's the delusion.

And this kind of work we have infinite amounts of. What every aspiring entrepreneur needs are good workers that just get shit done regardless of the task, and that first hire must be themselves. Be picky and you're screwed. Obsess about character and self worth and you might as well just burn all your time and money. Those things are important, but the point is, they have nothing to do with any task at hand. Those are the HUGE tasks that are NOT AT HAND. Even if you're working for yourself the IRS will rain work on you, your clients will, a bad sales day will, a broken web site will.

There was an interview with Elon Musk once where he was asked how he had spent his day so far. He explained how he was buying up all the USB cables at the local electronic stores because one of his suppliers missed their deadline and he needed to finish building some cars. How fun is that? Imagine all the glorious work he could be doing. Imagine how much his time is worth. He could be making millions. Except, that is precisely how he makes millions. By chasing down USB cables to meet deadlines. And volunteering to be interviewed.

There was also an interview with Sean P. Diddy Combs where he was asked how great life was and he basically said he had no complaints, but that he'd rather be having sex all day. And he is absolutely right. There is no work that is going to beat sex. Work = Not sex. That's it. He is worth 700 million. Madonna was also asked about sex, and she basically admitted being too busy for it. No shit! She is worth 500 million. Anyone can fuck all day. But that isn't work, and that isn't how anyone becomes a pop mogul.

The point is, stroking your own ego and thinking certain work is beneath you is like confusing work for something better. It isn't. It's like refusing to work because it's not fun or sexy or sex. And whether it's taking out the trash or making a presentation to a VC or just coding, work is all just work. It's shit that just needs to get done.

Then what's the difference between me or you buying a USB cable versus Elon Musk? The only difference is what happened years ago when Elon sat down and made a decision to build Electric Cars. The only difference is when he decided he wanted to colonize Mars. After such decisions were made, the rest is all just work, and it's mostly work that just rains down from above. He went to Russia to buy rocket engines because he had to. He poured in his own money because he had to. He watched a rocket explode because he was lied to about the specs of some bolts, because he had to. Is this the work we all seek? There is no seeking. There is no above or beneath. There is no character building. There is no you. There is just work work work!

There is plenty of work. Fuck not working. We need to get back to work not because it defines us, but because we can define our dreams. Let's Make America Great Again (TM). And when we see our new America in all of its extraordinaire that is when we become heroes again -- not the assholes we are known for.

The American Dream requires American Dreamers. It's all work, and no sex. The "fuck" in "fuck work" is as close as it gets.

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