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Fidel Castro has died

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Re: Fidel Castro has died

#211

Post by blahi »

ant6n wrote: post #32
chirau wrote: post #24

As an African, I'd say the world has lost one of the most influential leaders of the past century. To pretend here, for me, as if he was cruel to our continent would be both ungrateful and untrue. The man offered free training and medical school for most of our African doctors, he harbored, trained and armed many a guerilla group in our pursuit of independence from colonization. Up until today, Cuba still sends signi…

And to those who cheer the advent of capitalism in Cuba as a 'freer society', consider that now there's the form of proto-capitalism that existed in Eastern Europe and the former soviet countries after the fall of the wall. It's the time when society divides into economic winners and losers, and the wealth gap will increase - sometimes dramatically. So yay innovation and (somewhat more) freedom, but woe social tensio…

After the fall of the wall, the intelligence officers and highest party officials took control of the economy, the judicial and law enforcement systems and also the media. They people who ruled did not change. Just their methods.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#212

Post by mzw_mzw »

enraged_camel wrote: post #188
gragas wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose I agree. The US' embargo was probably quite tough on Cuba. But I don't think the state of the economy in Cuba can be entirely pinned on the embargo.

Of course it can. Cuba is an island nation and relies on trade to acquire the vast majority of the goods those of us in the West take for granted. Block that trade and you basically stifle all economic growth. From wikipedia: >>Cuba produces sugarcane, tobacco, citrus, coffee, rice, potatoes, beans and livestock.[2] As of 2015 Cuba imported about 70-80% of its food.[51] and 80-84% of the food it rations to the public…

And of course the Communist economic system -- the one that has led to immiseration and collapse everywhere it has been tried, all over the world -- has nothing to do with this. Must be the embargo!

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#213

Post by illuminati1911 »

Couldn't be more happy that this monstrous mass murderer and dictator is dead.

It's funny to see how leftist liberals are crying over this lunatic from New York hipster cafe's with their Macbooks and complaining about evil capitalism while all the Cubans who are living in the States and have actually experienced the life in Cuba are celebrating on the streets.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#214

Post by mzw_mzw »

Elv13 wrote: post #210
frozenport wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further they received significant aid from the USSR.

And their economy wasn't half bad back then (from a communist standard). In Canada we always had a softer tone with Cuba. A lot of the US PoV seems propaganda driven. Sure, there is a vocal expat group that had very good reasons to leave and were definitely harassed/prosecuted/persecuted for their views/lifestyle. The same kind of minorities exists in the US (watch Trump speeches from the last year). On the other sid…

Stating that "lesser economies" should literally be kept as prison states by strongmen. And they say Americans are heartless; we clearly have nothing on Canadians, if you're anything to go by.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#215

Post by kareemm »

kuschku wrote: post #173
edblarney wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The western view of Castro is painted with decades of terrible propaganda." + Fidel does not allow his people to leave, with the threat of punishment. + Fidel does not allow democracy + He does not allow any real internet access + Fidel puts political dissidents in jail + Fidel's private Army own's 85% of the economy + Cuban's live in relative poverty + Only the US 'embargos' Cuba, they are free to trade with 167 ot…

> + Only the US 'embargos' Cuba, they are free to trade with 167 other nations in the world - and even buy American products from wherever they want - just not America. Except, any company making a deal with Cuba is automatically banned from dealing with the US. To this date, the US even interfers in Europe regarding that: There is a famous case where a German bought Cuban Cigars from a Dane, and the FBI interfered,…

> Except, any company making a deal with Cuba is automatically banned from dealing with the US.

Can you be more precise by what you mean when you say "making a deal"? Does flying to Cuba constitute "making a deal"? Air Canada has flown there for years and still flies to the US.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#216

Post by sooheon »

pmarreck wrote: post #131
gragas wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Way less crimes than those who accuse him. Never sprayed Vietnamese with Agent Orange or napalms for one, never dropped nuclear bombs on civilians, never supported Pinochet et co, doesn't have 25% of the world's incarcerated in just 4% of the global population, and lots of other things besides. That's a logical fallacy. You can't say that Castro's crimes against humanity are okay because the US has committed worse o…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque Tu quoque fallacy, for the record

It's only a fallacy if it is being employed to absolve Castro of every crime. I think the point of the comparison was to remind pots not to call kettles black.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#217

Post by tscs37 »

friendlygrammar wrote: post #208
tscs37 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would

then do it and post proof

Now you're being rude.

You asked if I would, not if I will.

If I had the chance to do so I would, but I'm currently committed to do other things first.

Or do you believe that if someone wanted to go to Cuba that must be their sole and only motivation from that point on? You should't simplify people like that. It's rude.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#218

Post by blahi »

mememachine wrote: post #111
meric wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like how US saved Haiti and Libya and Iraq, right?

this is a good point. i dont think you can really call the us good guys here (or cuba, for that matter)

There are no good guys. There are just interest. The US protects its interests. Embargo on oil exports to the US? Fuck up your whole region so bad that this can't happen again. Divide and concur. Communism on its shore? Well, nobody goes on this forsaken place or else...

That's how you keep power and that's why you have such a high standard of living. You think it's because you work hard but it's not. At least not primarily.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#219

Post by enraged_camel »

betolink wrote: post #11

Fidel should have made it to the Guinness World Records, he survived more assassination attempts than we can count. I don't think there had been another man that had stood up to an empire for so long and had live to tell the story.

Not just assassination attempts, but also attempts to undermine his power in general. There was a plan to plant thallium salts in his shoes, which would get absorbed by skin and cause his facial hair to fall out. The hope was that this would lead people to believe that he was sick, and his authority would be weakened.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#220

Post by unknown_apostle »

CalChris wrote: post #50
gragas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's absolutely insane to side with Castro. Even if you agree with his political philosophy, there is overwhelming objective evidence of how awful it is: - Cuban economy - Cuban quality of life - basic Cuban freedoms (like supporting parties other than the one in power)

Per capita GDP for Cuba is $6,789 Mexico $9,909 Guatamala $3,666 Honduras $2,495 I'd say Cuba is in the mix GDP-wise. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD

Ok let's take GDP numbers at face value and let's assume this says much about daily life.

Basically, you're stating that 50+ years of Marxist order imposed by the Castro regime has managed to keep up with countries plagued by 50+ years of general chaos in the form of pathologically corrupt regimes, nepotism, inflation, rampant violent crime, civil war, guerilla movements and narcoterrorism.

Hmmm... I will contemplate the US embargo argument tonight, as I light up one of my precious Cuban cigars to honor the old commie bastard and to celebrate this great achievement of dialectical materialism. Hasta la victoria siempre!

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