Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

aeon.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 576 posts

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#241

Post by [deleted] »

vacri wrote: post #230
cesarbs wrote: post #212

Another good read on the topic: http://newramblerreview.com/book-reviews/political-science/t... I like this bit: "the knowledge worker is under severe external constraints. Much of their work is assisted or mediated through information technology, which contributes to a de-skilling of their cognitive labor. And on top of this they are expected to fully invest themselves in their jobs in a way that manufacturing labor…

Are you serious? Knowledge workers have it easy . It's hard to get here, but once we're here it's a great gig. We're paid well, we're in demand, and there's a robust freelancing sector to our industries, be it software, legal, medical, engineering, or whatever. That link describes a call center worker as a knowledge worker. That's absolute nonsense. You could, in theory, argue that a call center worker is about manag…

[deleted]

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#242

Post by pdonis »

The article lost me in the second paragraph, with "there is not enough work to go around". Seriously? There are so many things that need to be done. We need better energy sources. We need better health care. We need better infrastructure. I could go on and on.

There is a huge amount of work to be done. More than enough for everybody.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#243

Post by cmdrfred »

justneedto wrote: post #164
tristor wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be accurate, Sony did it first with their Xperia Z line.

My Nokia 3310 survived the cloth washer twice. Fifteen years ago. It's battery also lasted for several weeks. This line of reasoning is amusingly similar to NIH-syndrome.

Ultimately, the research into waterproofing electronics no doubt began as some NASA or DOD project, as practically everything like that does.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#244

Post by AndrewUnmuted »

rndmize wrote: post #162
sqeaky wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you build a system that is stable where an individual is expected to leave some personal gain on the table? That runs entirely counter to human nature. If you can solve that you may have something workable, but without it "Nonsense" is as good a word as any.

> That runs entirely counter to human nature. Not so. Tribal societies inherently function on everyone in the tribe working for the overall good rather than their individual gain. Socially, this is how we function by default - people will make sacrifices, extend loans, give gifts, and generally help out those close to them (family, friends, tribe members) without an expectation of something in return.

When I extend a loan to a friend, I do it because I value the relationship with that friend more than the timely receipt of payment. This is a selfish action on my part, is it not?

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#245

Post by jimbokun »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #84
DougWebb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say "isn't working" in the sense that the vast majority are struggling to achieve or retain financial security, while a tiny minority have concentrated most of the weath for themselves. Also, the trend continues to concentrate wealth further, making it ever more difficult for the majority. This is a recurring cycle, which has happened many times throughout history. Pretty much every time it ends with the elit…

Are you implying that people have had to struggle less to achieve or retain financial security in the past? During what time period and in what country? Can you share some specific data substantiating the claim? Average wealth has increased in America over the last 50 years, and real family income has been rising overall since the 1950s. Wealth concentration today is lower than it was in the 1930s. Poverty has fallen…

Interesting you choose 60s and 50s as comparison points, as many statistics suggest wage increases have been almost nonexistent since the 70s.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#246

Post by cmdrfred »

dvtv75 wrote: post #169
IanDrake wrote: post #64

Forget the word "job" and instead use the word "value" to understand just how silly this idea is. What he's saying is that no one needs to do anything of value anymore. You know, like the guy who built the house you live in, chopped down the trees it was built with, managed the project to build it, inspected the building to make sure it was put together correctly, etc... Hundreds of people had jobs to make the shelte…

Perhaps if you read the article without the intent to argue everything written because it contradicts your ideology? > What he's saying is that no one needs to do anything of value anymore. Can you point to the particular sentence where this is stated? Didn't think so. The article I read said that the majority of jobs aren't paid at a level appropriate to their value, and that without the (rather limited US) welfare…

To your point. 51% of the American workforce makes less that 30 thousand dollars a year. That number is trending upward rapidly.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/10/goodbye-middle-class-...

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#247

Post by pdonis »

Avshalom wrote: post #183
cperciva wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Trade and exploiting comparative advantages yields greater utility" is about as hard a law as any.

Being a happy Subaru owner I'm rather glad Japan ignored comparative advantage.

> I'm rather glad Japan ignored comparative advantage.

They did? How so?

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#249

Post by bertiewhykovich »

freshhawk wrote: post #167
bertiewhykovich wrote: post #77

Please just read Marx already.

But what of the risk to your mental health if you end up realizing that how much money you make isn't measuring how much value you provide to society? Or that, there are inherent contradictions in capitalism and therefore people have lied to you. The system is more complex and less rational than you thought. That would mean that we aren't in Fukuyama's post-ideological, end-of-history era! Sounds terrifying, maybe it…

It's good and not at all insane that I make $100,000/year for dicking around on a computer every day. Those poors just aren't creating value.

Re: What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

#250

Post by jimbokun »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #119
sqeaky wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you build a system that is stable where an individual is expected to leave some personal gain on the table? That runs entirely counter to human nature. If you can solve that you may have something workable, but without it "Nonsense" is as good a word as any.

Really? In Northern Europe I would argue we have this working decently well. To point where we have a health care system and educational system which is both less expensive than some and more productive/effective at the same time.

Stop rubbing it in.
Post reply on HN